Legendre polynomials in boosted temperature approximation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of Legendre polynomials in the context of the cosmic microwave background temperature as described in S. Weinberg's "Cosmology." Participants explore the mathematical derivation and approximation methods related to temperature distribution, specifically addressing discrepancies in formulae presented in the book.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the role of Legendre polynomials in the derivation of the cosmic microwave background temperature modification.
  • Another participant suggests that using Legendre polynomials is appropriate for analyzing temperature distribution and n-polar terms.
  • Discrepancies are noted regarding the coefficients in the formula, with one participant finding a different value than what is presented in the book.
  • Participants discuss the importance of careful expansion ordering in calculations, with one participant acknowledging a mistake in their initial approach.
  • There is an acknowledgment of an oversight rather than a fundamental issue with the mathematical approach itself.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the exact values derived from the formula, as discrepancies remain. Some participants agree on the appropriateness of using Legendre polynomials, while others focus on resolving specific calculation errors.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the correct application of expansions and the resulting coefficients in the formulae. The discussion highlights the need for clarity in mathematical derivations and the potential for errors in calculations.

jouvelot
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Hi all,

In S. Weinberg's book "Cosmology", there is a derivation of the slightly modified temperature of the cosmic microwave background as seen from the Earth moving w.r.t. a frame at rest in the CMB. On Page 131 (1st printing), an approximation (Formula 2.4.7) is given in terms of Legendre polynomials, but I have a hard time seeing how these polynomials get into the picture. Any hints?

Thanks in advance.

Bye,

Pierre
 
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(Mathematical explanation) Most expressions can be expanded in terms of a system of orthogonal functions with coefficients. If the coefficients tend to 0 rapidly enough, then a few terms of the expansion can be used as an approximation to the expression.

I have no knowledge of the particulars you are referring to.
 
Hello mathman,

Good point. Since the discussion here in the book is about temperature distribution, it makes sense to use Legendre polynomials to look at possible n-polar terms. A usual limited development factorised using Legendre polynomials yields the formula in the book (well, almost, but I get the idea).

Thanks a lot for your very helpful comment.

Bye,

Pierre
 
jouvelot said:
Good point. Since the discussion here in the book is about temperature distribution, it makes sense to use Legendre polynomials to look at possible n-polar terms. A usual limited development factorised using Legendre polynomials yields the formula in the book (well, almost, but I get the idea).

About this "almost" part, the first term in the book is -β2/6 while I find 5β2/6 (there is no mention of a typo here in the Corrections sheet available online). If anyone has an idea... ;)
 
jouvelot said:
About this "almost" part, the first term in the book is -β2/6 while I find 5β2/6 (there is no mention of a typo here in the Corrections sheet available online). If anyone has an idea... ;)

Did you subtract ##T## from (2.4.6)? I.e., (2.4.7) = (2.4.6) - ##T##.
 
Hello George,

I sure did. Moreover, this gives an additional factor term equals to 1, and not something proportional to β2 that would help explain the discrepancy.

Thanks for having looked into this :)

Pierre
 
jouvelot said:
About this "almost" part, the first term in the book is -β2/6 while I find 5β2/6 (there is no mention of a typo here in the Corrections sheet available online). If anyone has an idea... ;)

Okay, now I have done more of a calculation.

The first time I did the calculation, I got ##5 \beta^2/6##.

The second time I got ##- \beta^2/6##.

The first time that I did the calculation, I mistakenly used the expansion ##\gamma = \left( 1 - \beta^2 \right)^{-1/2} = 1 +\beta^2/2 + \ldots## instead of ##\gamma^{-1} = \left( 1 - \beta^2 \right)^{1/2} = 1 -\beta^2/2 + \ldots##.
 
George Jones said:
Okay, now I have done more of a calculation.

The first time I did the calculation, I got ##5 \beta^2/6##.

The second time I got ##- \beta^2/6##.

The first time that I did the calculation, I mistakenly used the expansion ##\gamma = \left( 1 - \beta^2 \right)^{-1/2} = 1 +\beta^2/2 + \ldots## instead of ##\gamma^{-1} = \left( 1 - \beta^2 \right)^{1/2} = 1 -\beta^2/2 + \ldots##.

George,

Oh! Great :) I see: one has to be pretty careful about the order with which expansions are performed. I'll sleep better tonight : )

Thanks a lot for your very useful help, and Merry Christmas.

Bye,

Pierre
 
Well, ultimately, it was not even a matter of Taylor expansion ordering, but just an oversight on my part. Thanks a lot for spotting it for me, George :)
 

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