Let's talk about the capitalist idea of 'freedom': free trade

[EL]

I doubt many people feel patriotic about living in North Korea - bad example.

Actually I think a lot of people in North Korea are (fooled to be) patriotic.
But less extreme counties say e.g. Nigeria, Uruguay, Turkey or Pakistan then.

Well, then I hate to break it to you, but you are patriotic!

I think we have discussed this before, but please state how you define "patriotism" then.

 

[SOS2008]

In reading through this thread, I noted the following:

Patriotism – I agree with EL that many Americans support bad policies based on nationalistic emotions rather than intelligent research and thought. The “support the troops” paraphernalia is a good example that I have mentioned more than once as very annoying (okay, asinine). This is really about supporting Bush and his damn, idiotic invasion under the pretenses of patriotism. If these people were REALLY patriotic they would get rid of Bush and start working on ways to bring the troops home so as to focus on rebuilding our nation beginning with decreasing our national debt (according to certain member's premise of self-perservation). And as EL notes, as a whole the U.S. is not really very patriotic in view of our disgustingly low voter turn out, and an entire range of behavior contrary to democratic premises.

Okay, back to the basic premises of this thread and problems inherent in the idea of a pure free trade market…

When so much of what you say is factually wrong, heavily biased, and phrased generally or as questions instead of specific, declarative statements, the only thing we end up seeing here is baseless USA-bashing. I cannot believe such a writing style would go over well in your political science classes.

Aside from the usual ad hominem (attacking the messenger with lack of maturity and professional courtesy), patronizing (like who is a political science expert, you?), over use of bolded words in your writing style, etc., I very much agree with alexandra that the U.S. acts in favor of those who are in power--not the general population. That is such an obvious no-brainer, which has been a topic of discussion throughout the ages. Those who resort to off-handed accusations of “U.S. bashing” tend to be those who support the status quo because they are in the ruling class, or most commonly, they believe they will be in the ruling class (Hah! Feel free to calculate the odds and get yourself a reality check. Then go on and see what the heck has happened to the so-called American Dream--you know, the one most Americans can no longer achieve, so it has become exactly that--just a dream.)

It is common to hear of today’s world economic system as being “free trade” or “globalization”. Some describe the historical events leading up to today’s global free trade and the existing system as “inevitable.” …Instead, various factors such as political decisions, military might, wars, imperial processes and social changes throughout the last few decades and centuries have pulled the world system in various directions. Today’s world economic system is a result of such processes. Power is always a factor.

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/FreeTrade/Criticisms.asp

How do we separate free trade (capitalism concepts) from freedom (life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness)?

"[T]he emergence of capitalism represents a culture that is in many ways the most successful that has ever been deployed in terms of accommodating large numbers of individuals in relative and absolute comfort and luxury. It has not been as successful, however, in integrating all in equal measure, and its failure here remains one of its major problems. It has solved the problems of feeding large numbers of people (although certainly not all), and it has provided unprecedented advances in health and medicine (but, again, not for all). It has promoted the development of amazingly complex technological instruments and fostered a level of global communication without precedent. It has united people in common pursuits as has no other culture. Yet it remains to be seen when the balance sheet is tallied whether capitalism represents the epitome of “progress” that some claim." — Richard H. Robbins, Global Problems and the Culture of Capitalism, (Allyn and Bacon, 1999), pp. 11 - 12

I don’t see how you can separate the two. Okay…carry on…(I don’t have any more time for this at the moment).

 

[X-43D]

Depends what is meant by freedom. In capitalism freedom is money because without it one cannot access the market.

 

[Art]

It's a shame to see some of the mentors here (one in particular) continues to abuse their priviliged position to post patronizing, ad-hominem attacks on those whose views they do not agree with. Perhaps if we simply ignore such posters they'll get bored and go away.

Interestingly asserting somebody is deficient in their work is 1 of only 3 slanders / libels actionable per se. i.e. the complainant doesn't have to prove actual damages to win.

 

[alexandra]

When so much of what you say is factually wrong, heavily biased, and phrased generally or as questions instead of specific, declarative statements, the only thing we end up seeing here is baseless USA-bashing. I cannot believe such a writing style would go over well in your political science classes.

*First point, Russ: prove that what I write is factually wrong, rather than just asserting that it is.
* Second point: In my job I am trained not to 'impart knowledge' but to develop my students' abilities to think critically. I therefore ask them to question the world they live in. I don't know what the education system in the US teaches students to do, but as far as I am concerned the main aim of tertiary education is to develop students' critical thinking skills, and one cannot do that by telling students what to think: one asks questions (it's called the Socratic Method). By the way, this goes over very well in my classes. Of all classes students are enrolled in, I pride myself that it is mine in which they learn how to think for themselves. And, amazingly, they seem to appreciate this - they keep enrolling in as many classes as I teach!

We are trying to enforce standards of quality here...

Oh, really? Pardon me for not meeting your high standards!

...that means that the OP must make a clear thesis (not ask leading questions without answering them) and then substantiate it. You did neither (though you did sort of provide a thesis in your second post).

Well, I raise questions. That is my style. I am not arrogant enough to feel that I have all the answers.

[edit: This may sound paternalistic, but I expect more from you than I otherwise would because I know something about your background and I know what you are - or should be - capable of. The scientific areas of this forum see posts of high quality because people who have knowledge of those fields posts high quality posts. The politics forum is a cesspool because people - even those with some knowledge and intelligence - post crap.

Look up the Socratic Method of teaching/learning, Russ - actually, I'll make it easy for you... here's a link: http://education.yahoo.com/college/essentials/articles/law/law_socratic_method.html

 

[WarrenPlatts]

Hi all

So-called "free trade" is one of the holy grails of capitalism, is it not? And the USA takes the lead in creating and defending free markets? How, then, does one explain this?

Just one example of 'capitalist freedom'

This is just the tip of the iceberg, of course - if we delve deeper into 'free markets' (which perhaps we may care to do in this thread) . Some introductory reading can be found in the links at the bottom of this webpage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_trade

:!) :!) :!) You'll have that. It'll be all right. :!) :!) :!)