Life without Government: Could Civilisation Survive?

[Gokul43201]

The fact that murder rates in the states is pretty high despite the death penalty contradicts your assertions.

That makes absolutely no sense, Moridin. I made no assertions about murder rates. I merely pointed out logical flaws in your argument.

 

[wolram]

I think this goes back to the idea that locks are designed to keep an honest man honest.

A crook is a crook regardless of deterrents.

This is so true and under examined.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Government is a kind of slow motion pillage with reduced levels of rape. I expect that without it, these things would run more efficiently.

 

[lisab]

Government is a kind of slow motion pillage with reduced levels of rape. I expect that without it, these things would run more efficiently.

There are places on Earth with little or no government. Somalia comes to mind. No where I'd like to be, thanks anyway.

 

[Moridin]

There are places on Earth with little or no government. Somalia comes to mind. No where I'd like to be, thanks anyway.

The reason Somalia is the way it is, is a direct result of government.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

The reason Somalia is the way it is, is a direct result of government.

Direct result of colonisation as well. But that's a positive and negative issue.

 

[wolram]

There are places on Earth with little or no government. Somalia comes to mind. No where I'd like to be, thanks anyway.

There aint much in Knightcote, though i think they may re introduce our old toll gate to pay for the half dozen buckets of tar they used fixing our road.

 

[lisab]

The reason Somalia is the way it is, is a direct result of government.

And when the government was dissolved, did life improve for its citizens? Did Somalia, freed from the unbearable yoke of government, suddenly become some sort of nirvana? No, it did not.

I'm no fan of stupid government, but this notion that all that is wrong with your lives stems from government is sophomoric.

In my work I have a lot of contact with Canadians and Canadian regulators, and I find their point of view towards government quite different from what I hear here in the US. They strive for good governance. Imagine that!

 

[arildno]

Direct result of colonisation as well. But that's a positive and negative issue.

You don't know about the depredations that Islamic slavery made in Eastern Africa, do you?
Villages and valleys were ruined and depopulated in order to fill the slave markets of the Maghrib, Turkey and Arabia.

Only when Western powers intervened militarily from the 1880's onwards (rather than ineffectual diplomatic pressures) were it possible to eradicate this evil.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

You don't know about the depredations that Islamic slavery made in Eastern Africa, do you?
Villages and valleys were ruined and depopulated in order to fill the slave markets of the Maghrib, Turkey and Arabia.

Only when Western powers intervened militarily from the 1880's onwards (rather than ineffectual diplomatic pressures) were it possible to eradicate this evil.

I'm not arguing in favour of any colonisation, I'm sorry if it appeared that way. God if there's one thing that can be learned from history it's that invading other countries is seldom worth the effort and the loss of life, if we consider it holistically. And in the 20th/21st it's slowly becoming obsolete despite ourselves.

 

[mheslep]

I think this goes back to the idea that locks are designed to keep an honest man honest.

Agreed and in two ways: first to dissuade the citizen from straying and preying on others, and second to prevent the citizen from seeking revenge when preyed upon because society has agreed on punishment and will at least attempt to execute the punishment.

But this is feebly trying to reinvent Hobbes, Hume and Locke, back to them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbes#Leviathan"
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/3207

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Treatise_of_Human_Nature"

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Treatises_of_Government#Second_Treatise"
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/7370

 

[grimlove527]

Could there be a civilised way to live without central government? suppose some catastrophe wiped out your countries government, would there be a priority to replace
it?

I have almost no faith in human nature, so I think most people need leaders because they would be lost without them. To me, a country without a strong ,central government would be anarchy.

Did you mean all the law enforcement-such as the police-be destroyed?

 

[pantaz]

There is much more to "government" than is being discussed here... what about development and maintenance of infrastructure?

 

[lisab]

There is much more to "government" than is being discussed here... what about development and maintenance of infrastructure?

I'm all about infrastructure, pantaz! Infrastructure is destiny!

 

[arildno]

There is much more to "government" than is being discussed here... what about development and maintenance of infrastructure?

Sure enough; but the point concerning that a society needs to have a mechanism by which criminality is held in check is SUFFICIENT reason to to regard "life without government" as un-enviable.

That there also are, or might be, OTHER reasons supportive of that conclusion is, of course, not denied.

 

[Moridin]

Statism has been the source of the most appalling genocides in all of history. Stalin, Mao, Hitler are some examples of what statism has given us.