Linear Differential Equation: when x=x(y)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a linear differential equation where the variable x is expressed as a function of y, specifically in the context of manipulating and transforming the equation for further analysis. Participants explore different approaches to rewriting the equation and applying integrating factors, as well as discussing the implications of treating variables in specific ways.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant rewrote the equation (x+y^2)dy=ydx as dx/dy - x/y = y and noted the challenge of using the correct variables for making the equation exact.
  • Another participant proposed a different form, xdy + y^2dy = ydx, and derived a relationship involving d(y/x) to explore further transformations.
  • There is a discussion about the proper application of derivatives and whether to use the method for y as a function of x or vice versa, with some confusion expressed about the transformations involved.
  • One participant expressed difficulty in following the derivation of d(y/x) and sought clarification on the steps taken in the discussion.
  • Another participant confirmed the equivalence of d(xy) = xdy + ydx and related it to the derivative of the quotient (y/x), suggesting a path for further exploration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to have differing views on the correct approach to rewriting the differential equation and the appropriate application of derivatives, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the variables and the transformations applied, as well as the potential confusion over the definitions of the derivatives involved.

rygza
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(x+y^2)dy=ydx
rewrote as: dx/dy - x/y = y
Realized I had P(y)x and Q(y) rather than the P(x) and Q(x) from equations where y is a function of x. My problem now is after I multiply by the Integrating factor (-1/y):

-1 - x/(y^2) + 1/y(dx/dy)

I tried to make exact but i don't know the proper variables to use. I used

(partial derivative. M/partial deriv. x) = - 1/(y^2) = (partial N/partial y)

Is this proper? Usually for y=y(x) functions it's (partial M/partial y) but if i use that for this problem it doesn't make the equation exact. OR Am I supposed to rewrite so i have dy/dx (and then use the y=y(x) method)?
 
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How about if I write it as:

[tex]xdy+y^2dy=ydx[/tex]

[tex]xdy-ydx=-y^2dy[/tex]

Ok, we know:

[tex]d\left(\frac{y}{x}\right)=\frac{xdy-ydx}{x^2}[/tex]

So that left side could be written as:

[tex]x^2d\left(\frac{y}{x}\right)=-y^2dy[/tex]

Now what happens if I divide throughout by y^2?
 
jackmell said:
How about if I write it as:

[tex]xdy+y^2dy=ydx[/tex]

[tex]xdy-ydx=-y^2dy[/tex]

Ok, we know:

[tex]d\left(\frac{y}{x}\right)=\frac{xdy-ydx}{x^2}[/tex]

So that left side could be written as:

[tex]x^2d\left(\frac{y}{x}\right)=-y^2dy[/tex]

Now what happens if I divide throughout by y^2?

lost me on the d(y/x) = ... part
 
rygza said:
lost me on the d(y/x) = ... part

hi rygza! :smile:

i suppose you're happy with d(xy) = xdy + ydx ?

that's the equivalent of (xy)' = xy' + yx'.

ok, now start with (y/x)' = (xy' - yx')/x2,

and you get d(y/x) = (xdy - ydx)/x2.
 

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