Linear functional clarification (from rudin)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of linear functionals in the context of Rudin's Functional Analysis, specifically regarding the claim that every nonconstant linear functional on a topological vector space (TVS) is an open mapping. Participants explore the implications of this statement, particularly in relation to continuity and the conditions under which it holds.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions Rudin's assertion, suggesting it may be a strengthening of the open mapping theorem, which typically requires continuity and an F-space structure.
  • Another participant asserts that there is no discontinuous linear functional from R to R, prompting a challenge regarding the definition of linearity used by Gelbaum.
  • A participant references Gelbaum's work, claiming it provides a counterexample of a discontinuous linear functional, leading to further discussion about the definitions involved.
  • Some participants propose that Gelbaum's definition of linearity may differ from the standard definition, which could clarify the confusion regarding discontinuity.
  • One participant argues that a linear functional on a TVS can indeed be discontinuous, but its restriction to a line through the origin is continuous and maps open intervals to open intervals in R.
  • Another participant discusses the implications of the zero functional and the need for additional adjustments in certain cases.
  • There is a mention of constructing a discontinuous linear functional from a Q basis, with a problem posed about the density of such functionals in the plane.
  • Further exploration includes the relationship between measurability and continuity of linear functionals, suggesting that if a functional is measurable, it must be continuous.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the adjustments needed when the functional evaluates to zero, indicating a need for clarity in that aspect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of Rudin's statement, with multiple competing views regarding the definitions of linearity, continuity, and the conditions under which a linear functional can be considered open. The discussion remains unresolved on several key points.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the definitions of linearity and continuity may vary, which affects the interpretation of the claims made by Rudin and Gelbaum. There are also unresolved mathematical steps related to the adjustments needed for specific cases, such as when the functional evaluates to zero.

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In Rudin's Functional Analysis (in theorem 3.4), he says:

"every nonconstant linear functional on X is an open mapping". X is topological vector space.

This seems like a strengthening of the open mapping theorem, which requires X to be an F-Space, and that the linear functional to be continuous.

Indeed, it seems like a discontinuous linear functional from R to R as described in Gelbaum for instance isn't open.

What am I missing?
thanks
 
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There is no discontinuous linear functional R to R. Linear is in the sense of real scalars.
 
Are you sure? "Counterexamples in Analysis" by Gelbaum p.33 gives an example.
 
p. 33 ... compare it carefully to what you said before.
 
This isn't homework. Can you be more direct?

As far as I see, the function defined by Gelbaum is a discontinuous linear functional R to R.
 
I think the problem is that Gelbaum's construction is using a different definition of linear. It seems Gelbaum's "linear" doesn't also imply f(a*x) = a*f(x) for scalar a. So that resolves some of my confusion. Does this sound accurate?

That still leaves my original question, though:

Is "every nonconstant linear functional on X is an open mapping"? Even assuming that the functional is continuous, do we really not need the stronger condition that X is an F-space?
 
We do not need [itex]F[/itex]-space and we do not need continuous. A linear functional [itex]f[/itex] on a TVS [itex]X[/itex] can be discontinuous. But the point of the "hints" I gave before is that when you restrict [itex]f[/itex] to a line (say a line [itex]L = \{tu : t \in \mathbb{R}\}[/itex] through the origin and the point [itex]u[/itex]), that restriction is continuous, in fact it is of the form [itex]f(tu) = tc, t \in \mathbb{R}[/itex], for some constant [itex]c[/itex]. And (more to the point) it maps open intervals in [itex]L[/itex] to open intervals in [itex]\mathbb{R}[/itex].

We do have to assume [itex]f[/itex] is not the zero linear functional!

We claim [itex]f[/itex] is an open map. Let [itex]U \subset X[/itex] be an open set. We must show the image [itex]f(U)[/itex] is open in [itex]\mathbb{R}[/itex]. Let [itex]u \in U[/itex] . We claim that [itex]f(U)[/itex] contains an interval centered at [itex]f(u)[/itex]. This is because of the restriction property mentioned above. OK?

(Strictly speaking, we still have to adjust something when [itex]f(u) = 0[/itex].)
 
g_edgar said:
We do not need [itex]F[/itex]-space and we do not need continuous. A linear functional [itex]f[/itex] on a TVS [itex]X[/itex] can be discontinuous. But the point of the "hints" I gave before is that when you restrict [itex]f[/itex] to a line (say a line [itex]L = \{tu : t \in \mathbb{R}\}[/itex] through the origin and the point [itex]u[/itex]), that restriction is continuous, in fact it is of the form [itex]f(tu) = tc, t \in \mathbb{R}[/itex], for some constant [itex]c[/itex]. And (more to the point) it maps open intervals in [itex]L[/itex] to open intervals in [itex]\mathbb{R}[/itex].

We do have to assume [itex]f[/itex] is not the zero linear functional!

We claim [itex]f[/itex] is an open map. Let [itex]U \subset X[/itex] be an open set. We must show the image [itex]f(U)[/itex] is open in [itex]\mathbb{R}[/itex]. Let [itex]u \in U[/itex] . We claim that [itex]f(U)[/itex] contains an interval centered at [itex]f(u)[/itex]. This is because of the restriction property mentioned above. OK?

(Strictly speaking, we still have to adjust something when [itex]f(u) = 0[/itex].)

Your post reminds me of the example of a linear functional from R to R when R is viewed as a vector space over the rationals.

It is easy to construct a discontinuous one from a Q basis.

Problem: Show that such the graph such a discontinuous linear functional is dense in the plane.
 
Thanks, g_edgar. That clears things up.

wofsy: that's the same construction that Gelbaum is citing. Am I correct that that construction doesn't have the property that: f(a*x) = a*f(x) for scalar a?
 
  • #10
redrzewski said:
Thanks, g_edgar. That clears things up.

wofsy: that's the same construction that Gelbaum is citing. Am I correct that that construction doesn't have the property that: f(a*x) = a*f(x) for scalar a?

if a is a rational number, then f(a*x) = a*f(x).

The problem has more parts to it. Show that if f is measurable then it is continuous. If f is continuous then it is just multiplication by a scalar.
What does that tell you about the measurability of a basis for the reals over the rationals?
 
Last edited:
  • #11
I don't see the "adjust something" of g_edgar very clearly (for the case f(u)=0).

None of that is required to complete Rudin's argument, though. In his case, what one can do is simply let gamma=sup Gamma(A). All one needs to prove is that gamma is not in the image of A. Assume that it is in the image of A; that is, gamma=Gamma(a) for some a in A. Then, as A is open, one can find a balanced neighbourhood U of 0 with a+U in A. If u in U, then gamma >= Gamma(a+u)=gamma+Gamma(u), so we conclude that Gamma(u)<=0. But, as U is balanced, this argument should also work for -u, and that gives us a contradiction. The conclusion is that gamma is not in the image of A, and so Gamma(a)<gamma for all a in A.
 

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