Can liquid conductors be used to improve the efficiency of electric motors?

[Steve-O]

Hello!
I found this interestingly amazing forum accidentally while searching for info on conductive liquids. Please let me explain...
I have built an electric motorcycle conversion (EMC) and am in the planning stages of upgrading the drive system from a PMDC http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/motenergy-me1003.html to a newer improved water cooled brushless PMAC https://sep.yimg.com/ty/cdn/yhst-129399866319704/ME1616.jpg

This is an elaborate example of how my twisted brain works: I'm thinking of liquids to cool an electric motor with. Most people would think Prestone and be done with it! No! Not me! I'm cursed I tell ya!
The coolant is pumped and passed through the magnetic field of the motor. Any conductor, whether a solid metal or a liquid, will have current produced in it as it passes through the flux of a magnetic field. I guess this translates into electrolysis. Corrosion. So a non-conducting liquid should probably be used to cool the motor, in order to prevent electrolysis. Pure H2O is a non-conductor, I believe. So pure distilled water should give the least amount of corrosion. I don't know if the automotive industry's common coolant glycol has any effect on suppressing electrolysis in this example. On the other hand, electrolysis is the principle of what makes a battery work. So if the coolant is a conductor, then theoretically you should be able to use this created current to assist in the recharge of the EMC's battery pack.

Then I start thinking about the 2 chemists in Utah back in the 1980's that thought they created cold fusion by using Palladium and heavy water. I don't know the details of their experiment or discovery, but I remember they were a laughing stock to the status quo of the Scientific Community. They took a very unorthodox path to releasing the results of their experiment by going mainstream public with their data. I'm not sure what they stumbled on, but everything happens for a reason! The reason for me is that they brought to light and taught me an important virtue of Palladium: It has a superior ability to absorb H3 ions like a sponge. So therefore, Palladium would make an optimum anode for a heavy water battery. I'm thinking it should be connected to the conducting liquid passing through the magnetic flux on one side of the magnetic field. An experiment would need to be done to learn whether an upstream or downstream connection changes anything. But what material would be the best to use for the cathode?So here is a small list of questions that the above example inspired:
1.What is the conductivity of heavy water compared to ocean water? I know that ocean water has H3O in it.
2.What would be the most optimum conductor to connect to the liquid circuit on the other side of the magnetic field discussed in the example above?
3.What metal has the best ability to repel or emit H3 ions?
4.Are we getting any closer to superconductors that operate at room temps?
5.Do Superconductors produce a magnetic field when current is passed through them?
6.Will a current be produced if a superconductor is passed through a magnetic field?
7. Is a liquid superconductor possible?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Simple_Periodic_Table_Chart-en.svg

https://www.physicsforums.com/posts/5842719/report
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/hello-from-norhumboldt.925705/reply?quote=5842719 https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/hello-from-norhumboldt.925705/reply?quote=5842719

 

[berkeman]

Thread closed for Moderation...

 

[berkeman]

Thread re-opened. Your mention of "cold fusion" caused the closure, since that is a forbidden topic on the PF. I think your questions can be addressed on their face by our members. Welcome to the PF.

 

[ZapperZ]

Hello!
I found this interestingly amazing forum accidentally while searching for info on conductive liquids. Please let me explain...
I have built an electric motorcycle conversion (EMC) and am in the planning stages of upgrading the drive system from a PMDC http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/motenergy-me1003.html to a newer improved water cooled brushless PMAC https://sep.yimg.com/ty/cdn/yhst-129399866319704/ME1616.jpg

This is an elaborate example of how my twisted brain works: I'm thinking of liquids to cool an electric motor with. Most people would think Prestone and be done with it! No! Not me! I'm cursed I tell ya!
The coolant is pumped and passed through the magnetic field of the motor. Any conductor, whether a solid metal or a liquid, will have current produced in it as it passes through the flux of a magnetic field. I guess this translates into electrolysis. Corrosion. So a non-conducting liquid should probably be used to cool the motor, in order to prevent electrolysis. Pure H2O is a non-conductor, I believe. So pure distilled water should give the least amount of corrosion. I don't know if the automotive industry's common coolant glycol has any effect on suppressing electrolysis in this example. On the other hand, electrolysis is the principle of what makes a battery work. So if the coolant is a conductor, then theoretically you should be able to use this created current to assist in the recharge of the EMC's battery pack.

Then I start thinking about the 2 chemists in Utah back in the 1980's that thought they created cold fusion by using Palladium and heavy water. I don't know the details of their experiment or discovery, but I remember they were a laughing stock to the status quo of the Scientific Community. They took a very unorthodox path to releasing the results of their experiment by going mainstream public with their data. I'm not sure what they stumbled on, but everything happens for a reason! The reason for me is that they brought to light and taught me an important virtue of Palladium: It has a superior ability to absorb H3 ions like a sponge. So therefore, Palladium would make an optimum anode for a heavy water battery. I'm thinking it should be connected to the conducting liquid passing through the magnetic flux on one side of the magnetic field. An experiment would need to be done to learn whether an upstream or downstream connection changes anything. But what material would be the best to use for the cathode?So here is a small list of questions that the above example inspired:
1.What is the conductivity of heavy water compared to ocean water? I know that ocean water has H3O in it.
2.What would be the most optimum conductor to connect to the liquid circuit on the other side of the magnetic field discussed in the example above?
3.What metal has the best ability to repel or emit H3 ions?
4.Are we getting any closer to superconductors that operate at room temps?
5.Do Superconductors produce a magnetic field when current is passed through them?
6.Will a current be produced if a superconductor is passed through a magnetic field?
7. Is a liquid superconductor possible?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Simple_Periodic_Table_Chart-en.svg

https://www.physicsforums.com/posts/5842719/report
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/hello-from-norhumboldt.925705/reply?quote=5842719 https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/hello-from-norhumboldt.925705/reply?quote=5842719

First of all, you never, ever want to use a discredited and "disgraced" non-discovery as the justification for your idea. It is just not a good strategy if you wish to be taken seriously.

Secondly, I find your scenario to be very confusing. You seem to want something that is a good thermal conductor, but somehow, you are equating it with something that is a good ELECTRICAL conductor by invoking superconductors. They are not the same thing. The cuprate superconductors, for example, have a "ceramic" base, and are not good thermal conductors at all (they are also bad electrical conductors in the normal state). So good superconductors is NOT equal to good thermal conductors.

4. No, we are not any closer to room temperature superconductor. Even if we do, it seems irrelevant to your application

5. Yes, superconductors carry current just like ordinary conductors. It is the current that produces magnetic field. It is why superconducting magnets are used in many applications, like at the LHC.

6. Again, a superconductor has similar behavior as ordinary conductor. This means that one can induce a current by the application of a changing magnetic flux.

Zz.

 

[Steve-O]

Thank you Zz... Yes , a thermal conductor is and was the primary concern, however, unlike an internal combustion engine, this coolant is passing through a magnetic field. So conductivity becomes an issue for electrolysis created corrosion. However, if this "problem" can be somehow utilized in an advantageous way, using nanoparticles in the coolant, for example, maybe an induced current can be tapped as a secondary source of energy by means of a byproduct to cooling the electric motor. The very reason an electric motor is far superior to an internal combustion engine in terms of efficiency is the fact that there are far fewer moving parts to waste energy by friction, coupled with the stored potential energy possessed by the permanent magnets in the electric motor. The thought of superconducting magnets in an electric motor would be a huge improvement to the design of electric motors, but that's a pipe dream, unless it can be done at room temps. I saw some recent data on graphene potentially having superconducting properties. This is all fascinating to me.