High current in a supercooled wire?

  • Thread starter Thread starter PhiowPhi
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Current Wire
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of applying and maintaining a high current (50kA) in a supercooled copper conductor for a short duration (100ms). It explores the heat transfer processes, cooling requirements, and potential safety concerns associated with the experiment.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a copper plate with specified dimensions can sustain 50kA for 100ms without fusing or melting, providing calculations for resistance at room temperature and at -196°C.
  • The same participant seeks to understand the cooling time required to bring the plate to -196°C and the volume of liquid nitrogen needed to sustain the current for the specified duration.
  • Another participant raises a safety concern, stating that the experiment is too dangerous for individuals with limited technical knowledge and emphasizes the need for stringent safety precautions if attempted.
  • A different participant introduces the concept of the skin effect, suggesting that calculations should consider the waveform and bandwidth of the current.
  • This participant also provides a rough estimate of the amount of nitrogen required to dissipate the heat generated during the experiment, referencing the heat of fusion of nitrogen.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the safety and feasibility of the proposed experiment, with some focusing on technical calculations while others emphasize safety concerns. No consensus is reached regarding the practicality of conducting the experiment.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes unresolved questions about the heat transfer process, the cooling time, and the implications of induced magnetic fields, which remain open for further exploration.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals exploring high-current applications in superconductivity, heat transfer in conductors, and safety considerations in experimental physics.

PhiowPhi
Messages
203
Reaction score
8
I'm trying to understand heat-transferring process and the maximum amount of current and coolant required to apply and maintain(for a short-duration) high current in a certain conductor, before I start considering an experiment, I'd rather have my work correct in-terms of the calculations and predictions of what might happen.

The conductor is a copper plate, the dimensions: 250mm H x 5mm W x 10mm T
Weight: 111.58 grams

Can this conductor sustain 50kA in a duration of 100ms without fusing/melting?

Since it's a plate, I used https://www.eeweb.com/toolbox/trace-resistance online calculator for a quicker computation of the resistance and confirmed it with my own work they are approximately the same, the resistance at room temperature is: 0.0000843 Ohms.

The idea here is to have the conductor initially cooled to -196°C using liquid nitrogen, using the same calculator above I changed the temperature to -196°C, and now R = 0.0000117 Ohms

Using Ohm's law I'm assuming that the applied voltage(##V##) would be: ##0.0000117\Omega \times 50kA## = ##0.585V## The power is ≈ ##30kW##

Now when working out the heat transfer and the rate of transfer I lose myself, it's like all the things I studied in Physics 101 and Chem. 101 faded away... here are some questions I couldn't figure out aside from the initial one:

1) How long would it take to cool the plate from RT(20 - 25°C) to (-196°C) to apply the 50kA?
2) How much(volume) liquid nitrogen would I need to sustain this process for 100ms?
3) How long would it take to cool the wire(or transfer all the dissipated power) for a re-run(somewhat relates to Q1)?
4) Would the induced magnetic field have any ramifications? I assume a large spike if disconnected quickly due to the induced EMF.

The reason I considered liquid nitrogen is to reduce the resistance greatly, and cool the system rapidly, however, I think water would be a good substitute? Or even air cooling? Or possibly both or all?
I'm pretty sure due to the rapid boiling of liquid nitrogen I'd require a lot of it.
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
This experiment is far too dangerous for anyone with limited technical knowledge to contemplate doing . If it had to be carried out for some real purpose then stringent safety precautions would be required .
 
Have you considered the skin effect?

To calculate this you will need to know your waveform and its bandwidth.

The heat of fusion of nitrogen is 5.56 kJ/mol. So to dissipate 3000 joules (30,000 kW over 0.1 sec), a bit over 4 mols of vaporized N2. This gets into the Leidenfrost area I think.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Closed pending moderation.

Edit: we will go ahead and leave this closed due to safety policy.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PhiowPhi

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
6K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
4K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K