Logic of E-H action, ricci scalar, cosmological constant?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the logic of Einstein's equations, particularly focusing on the Einstein-Hilbert action, the Ricci scalar, and the cosmological constant. Participants explore various interpretations and implications of these concepts within the context of general relativity (GR) and information theory, aiming to deepen their conceptual understanding of the relationship between geometry and information.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the Ricci scalar can be viewed as a "density of information divergence," suggesting a connection between geometry and information theory.
  • Others argue that the cosmological constant reflects the nature of discrete information, positing that while a finite observer cannot conclude a zero value, they might expect it to be "almost zero."
  • A participant suggests that the Einstein-Hilbert action could be interpreted as the "action of the action," indicating a potential induction step in reasoning.
  • There is a discussion about the possibility of deriving GR from principles of information rather than solely geometric formulations, with references to the work of Ariel Caticha.
  • Some participants express skepticism about whether Einstein's equations are fundamental or if they arise from constrained reasoning or equilibrium conditions.
  • A later reply highlights a theory of quantum gravity that connects the Einstein-Hilbert action to a nonperturbative path integral, suggesting an entropic, self-organizing nature of spacetime history.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the interpretations of the Ricci scalar, cosmological constant, and the foundations of Einstein's equations. The discussion is characterized by exploratory reasoning and varying perspectives on the underlying logic of GR.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that their reflections are somewhat fuzzy and require refinement. There is an emphasis on the need for clearer definitions and assumptions, particularly concerning the nature of probability and entropy in the context of GR.

  • #61


Fra said:
It's a bit like Zurek's sentiment that "What the observer knows is inseparable from what the observer is".

This means that in my representation, an observer is technically a system of related microstructures, and this system is the observer. So the information is the identifier of the observer. And information is evolving, and identification of observers are a result of spontaneous structure stable formations which are relations to it's environment.

An implication of this, is that there is not much sense in the notion that "two different observers has the same information" if we by this also also means that the information has the same confidence levels etc. Because if two observers really have the same information, then the two observers conincide.

The distinction between observers, is measured by their disagreement, which in turn is measured by their interaction. And with observer, I also include any subsystems of the universe. And my idea is to extract from the process of disagreeing (a process of communicating opinions) the structure of interacations.

So my picture is that the laws of physics and the physical interactions, are the laws of information processing and communication. And to incorporate the "observer" in these "interactions" is to include the information processors or transcievers in the communication.

This is to me a generalisation of Einsteins Gravity, in that spacetime itself "responds" to the the dynamics in spacetime. IE. the observers "respond" to the communication that is relative to them. The result are evolving observers. And the observer-observer interactions, analysed starting from the simlpest possible observers and scaling up the complexity, should chart out the structure of all interactions. Classifications will emerge here.

/Fredrik
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #62


Fra said:
This is to me a generalisation of Einsteins Gravity, in that spacetime itself "responds" to the the dynamics in spacetime. IE. the observers "respond" to the communication that is relative to them. The result are evolving observers.

This also shows the problem. Given the original association the geometry of spactime responds to what's going on relative to it, the missing step was still, exactly how does this relation look like. Einsteins equation is a solution to this in GR.

In this case, the question is, exactly HOW does the interaction "the observer" participates in provides a selection for it's evolution. This is the problem I am trying to solve in my way. At first there is the simple idea of random walking towards some optimum, as per some ME principle, but the interesting part is that the space the walk takes place in is also dynamical, and the optimum is moving. So there is no global optimum, just some strange kind of relational optimum. This is a bit unpredictable and I don't know for sure what will come out of this, but I've already convinced myself that a local speed limit in line with lorentz stuff will be emergent, but this is deformed as everything evolves. I also think a universal attraction of structures will emerge, and I think this can explain gravity. And the supposed "explanation of this attraction" lies in the connection that causes an evolution in the observer, given interactions it participates in.

That is a lineout. But the details are in progress of course. Unfortunately I have not found that awfully many existing papers that is doing just this, although many approaches share elements of tihs.

/Fredrik
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 62 ·
3
Replies
62
Views
11K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 153 ·
6
Replies
153
Views
13K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
5K
  • · Replies 105 ·
4
Replies
105
Views
16K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K