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Medical LSD: The Geek's Wonder Drug? [Wired News]

  1. Jan 21, 2006 #1

    hypnagogue

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    http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,70015-0.html
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 22, 2006 #2
    LSD is truly a unique drug and should perhaps be legalized. It isn't necessarily as dangerous as other drugs. Even other psychedelics such as ecstasy can be far more dangerous. Well, LSD can be dangerous too but I have read it doesn't have as many long-term problems as marijuana.
     
  4. Jan 22, 2006 #3

    Ivan Seeking

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    About ten years ago I read an interview with Kary Mullis in the Berkeley Journal in which he talked about this in great detail.

    I have also met long time LSD users. :surprised

    A old acquaintance of mine met Timothy Leary about fifteen years ago. Allegedly Leary tended to drool alot. I don't know if this was related to his long time LSD use, but he was one very strange person in his later years.
     
  5. Jan 22, 2006 #4

    Astronuc

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    The effect of LSD is perhaps unpredictable, and its effect depends upon the person psychology. From a pyscho-physiological point, most people who use it probably should not - and I have seen cases of people destroying themselves with the drug. Of course, some LSD users use other drugs, and it is impossible to know which drug had what effect.

    I saw an interview with Ken Kesey about 20 or so years ago. He seemed coherent and articulate, but I believe he may be an exception.
     
  6. Jan 22, 2006 #5
    Esctasy is a stimulant drug related to amphetamines. Certainly a dangerous drug. I am not familiar with the chemistry of LSD, but based on all the anecdotes over the years, it certainly can be dangerous, at least due to the distorted thinking of the user. It may not permanently alter brain chemistry, like the research amphetamines do, but that does not mean there is no danger.
     
  7. Jan 22, 2006 #6

    saltydog

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    Yep, there he is. Why am I not surprised? So I have this really nice book: "Drugs and the Brain" by S. Snyder. So I look up LSD cus' I want to verify its structure is similar to serotonin and there he is: Timothy Leary.

    Anyway, all the major psychedelic drugs are similar in structure to serotonin, norephinephrine, and dopamine. That's why they cause "spurious" mental phenomena: trips. Here's a quote from the book:

    "many people killed themselves because of the illusory thoughts and perceptions prompted by the drug [LSD]. In a number of instances LSD psychoses precipitated long-term schizopherenic breaks in people who might have gone through life in reasonably good psychological health but for their drug experiences" . . . I know one in particular (no, not me).
     
  8. Jan 22, 2006 #7
    I don't think I could disagree more. A) It's easy enough to make regardless of its legality. B) It can be harmful to people who have had troubled and traumatic pasts and can agitate and underlying mental illness in those who may be more vulnerable. Ecstacy and LSD fall into the same category of halucinogen. They both effect the neurotransmitter serotonin altering brain cell activity and perception. Neither of these drugs have any business being legal. Mind sharing these long term problems associated with marijuana use, because I'd wager that LSD has more potential problems down the line than marijuana does.
     
  9. Jan 22, 2006 #8

    Les Sleeth

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    I agree with you about not legalizing it, and especially about the potential danger to people with troubled/traumatic pasts. As someone who grew up around it, and doing it, I've seen some serious bad trips, including two incidents that seemed to trigger bipolar disorders (of course, the bipolar problems may have occurred anyway). The only thing I'd disagree with is if you mean to equate LSD and Ecstacy in anyway other than both being potential hallucinogins, otherwise I don't think they are even close.

    I've seen even healthy people freak out on LSD if something goes wrong during the trip. Once some friends and I were doing it, and a girl who was prone to being absent-minded turned on a gas oven in anticipation for cooking a pizza. The LSD made her absent-mindedness worse, and so when she came back 30 minutes later and saw she forgot to light the oven . . .

    An outside door was directly behind the stove, so when we all rushed outside to pick her up off the door that had been blown 10 feet, she was screaming. She wasn't seriously hurt, but the smell of burnt eyebrows and her numb body was scarry. Everyone else panicked and were all doing exactly the wrong things to deal with the situation. Whew, what a night that was.

    That said, I must admit that psychedelics, mostly peyote in my case, also helped me. I was always very careful (after a couple of bad situations) to be in a safe secure place (always outdoors), and to do it for the purpose of contemplation. After I started doing it that way, I always seemed to learn from it. Mostly I learned how to be more open. Yet after 200 trips or so, and losing the heightened consciousness peyote gives every time (I always tried to "remember" it but never could), I turned to meditation and stopped doing all drugs. Meditation is much better IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2006
  10. Jan 22, 2006 #9
    Also check out this site: http://www.yoism.org/?q=node/52

    Actually Ectasy (and LSD) are part stimulant, part hallucinogent and are not related to amphetamines. LSD is a bit better than amphetimes because as it is not as adictive and has less dangers (although one can argue the opposite).

    Marijuana can produce effects that can last up to a month long and can slow down things. I never said LSD didn't have its problems but many of it is more temporary, although this isn't a rule either. It may trigger hallucinating diseases in normal conscious form depending on the person later down the line but is not too common.

    I think any drug (well except maybe caffeine :wink:) can be deadly to a person depending on a person. Alcohol has ruined many people's life while it does nothing to some people. It really depends on the person.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2006
  11. Jan 27, 2006 #10

    Pythagorean

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    LSD definately doesn't need to be legal, but there's no doubt that it influences very alternative ways of thinking about things, and if you can keep yourself together (which has a lot to do with taking the right dose) you can actually achieve a goal with the alternative thought process. I am in support of this kind of research as long as one keeps in mind a few things and approach it scientifically:

    a) Setting up a controlled environment before you trip is crucial. Generally, people drop in the evening and it lasts 6-8 hours, so unexpected company isn't a problem. A safe, comfortable environment (real comfortable, as back will require additional support sooner or later) is the ideal

    b) Dosage/Quality. Taking the right dosage is an important and critical part of taking acid. It's dependent on the quality of the acid and some unknown (to me) factors having to do with your personal tolerance. If you take too much at one time, you may have fun, or you may go through hell, but you won't get anything productive done.

    c) Usage. Don't use LSD commonly. It should be cermonial, and reserved for working on a project that is more personal to you.

    d) Company. This may be a personal opinion, but without company, you tend to start asking fundamental questions (such as "the meaning of life") or if there's a god, or 'is there such a thing as altruism?'. Having company can serve as a distraction or create discussion about those curiousities. It's prefferable that your friend is dosing too, so they're on the same 'wavelength'.

    All that being said, I haven't done hallucinogens for a long time, and I don't think I have the need for them. It really is lazy man's meditation. With self-discipline and practice, you can think creatively for yourself in many different situations every day without any mind-altering drugs.

    In fact, there was a yogi (an indian monk or priest, I think) who supposedly ate a sheet of acid and wasn't affected (a sheet is a lot). (Anyone who can confirm/disprove this would be appreciated). The journalist who was reporting on him (and also provided the acid) concluded that "You can't take the train to Tibet if you're already there."

    If this story is true (which it may not be, depending on the way acid works) it has some interesting implications.
     
  12. Jan 27, 2006 #11

    cronxeh

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    With the number of people who havent used LSD and won Nobel prize, one would wonder whether it was the advanced people who took the drug and made discoveries, rather than ordinary people who took the drug and became advanced making discoveries.
     
  13. Jan 27, 2006 #12

    Pythagorean

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    I don't know what you mean by "advanced" but if you mean knowledgable and skilled, then I would absolutely agree. LSD doesn't suddenly give you skills and knolwedge, but it will help you to think differently and utilize the skills and knowledge that you do have in a way you hadn't thought of before. That much is certain.

    Now, whether or not the results from this alternative process are of any use is a different story, and depends on a large number of hidden variables. You can see from the original post, though, that its not rare for the drug to be associated with satisfactory results.
     
  14. Jan 27, 2006 #13

    cronxeh

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    The negative feedback effect of hallucinogens does not make you more intelligent. If anything it is the intelligent individual who found the reality to be interesting enough to invest time and effort and make new discoveries. This simple explanation, which is also a scientific one, will include into your data all the failures of societies that we associate with drug users, as well as all successes.
     
  15. Jan 27, 2006 #14

    Pythagorean

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    your first sentence in a mundane point we've both already agreed on, and furthermore I agree with our second sentence. I have no data, I've made no measurements, and I've conducted no experiment, this discussion is not that technically important to me and based purely off of qualitative observation.

    Also, as I concluded in my first reply to this thread, it is lazy man's meditation, which can be likened to eating the apple of wisdom. One of reasons LSD is so expressedly illegal (you get charged manslaughter for each hit of acid you have) is because it caused a lot of rebellion and acting out against government. From the experiencer's point of view, it literally frees your mind, by temporarily disabling prejudices and hidden assumptions (assumptions that you were raised into by your family, society, and media without directly noticing), so it stands a high chance of freeing up any blocks you have where creative problem-solving is required.

    Some areas of profession that I have experience with that require creative problem-solving:

    physics, math, computer programming

    Am I implying that everyone should use the drug? No. In fact, I think it's a weak way out of problem-solving, and if you build up a dependency to problem-solving with LSD, then you're at a great disposition.

    On the other hand, having experimented with drugs in my high school days, I wouldn't ridicule anyone for it, because I was on a trip when I decided to become a physics major. I realized what physics actually was and how it answered all the questions I'd always naturally asked. I was good at math, but I hated it until I realized how I could apply it, how I could visualize it. I don't really care to prove whether this was a result of the drug or not, but I think it had an influence, definately.
     
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