Lufthansa Pilot Aces Difficult Landing in Stormy Hamburg

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a Lufthansa pilot's challenging landing in stormy conditions at Hamburg, highlighting the pilot's skills and decision-making under extreme weather. Participants share their reactions, experiences, and opinions on pilot judgment and safety protocols in aviation.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express admiration for the pilot's skill in handling the difficult landing conditions.
  • Others question the decision to attempt landing in such severe weather, suggesting that a superior pilot would avoid such situations altogether.
  • Several participants note the unpredictability of wind gusts and the challenges in forecasting them accurately.
  • Some argue that the pilot's decision to attempt a second landing after the initial failure raises questions about judgment and safety.
  • There are discussions about the role of air traffic control (ATC) and the pilot's ultimate authority in landing decisions.
  • Participants share personal experiences with challenging landings and weather conditions, contributing to the overall context of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the pilot's actions were justified. Some believe the pilot acted appropriately given the circumstances, while others argue that the landing should not have been attempted at all. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the balance between skill and judgment in aviation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include varying interpretations of pilot decision-making, the unpredictability of weather conditions, and the absence of detailed information about the flight's origin and the specific weather forecasts available at the time.

  • #31
Maxi J is 24 years old and she was the co-pilot on the flight. She certainly didn't have the experience with this kind of landing.

Oliver A. is 17 years with Lufthansa and 6 years as captain.
 
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  • #32
Andre said:
Furthermore I assumed that large aircraft touch down all the way maintaining crabbing because of this problem wing drop problem (the down wind wing is shielded from the airflow by the fuselage and hence looses lift).
A pilot co-worker of mine pointed out to me that the B-52 was designed with all-wheel steering, allowing it to land in a crab instead of attempting to straighten-out right before touchdown.
 
  • #33
Cyrus said:
Actually, it is entirely the pilots fault. ATC has no say, the final authority is only on the pilot. If, for example, I ask ATC if I should land at an airport, they can't tell me yes or no. They can only tell me the weather and to use my own personal judgement.
You're right that the pilot has authority and responsibility, but ATC does hold one trump card: they can shut down their airport. If a pilot viewed the fact that the airport was open (others in the area were closed) as implying it was safe to land, then he was shirking that responsibility. But yes, we are speculating and monday-morning qbing.

Here's some more info on the incident:

http://tinyurl.com/2rk36t
 
  • #34
The 155 mph gust appears to be a myth. The weather man on TV talks about 70 knot gusts ~80 mph, at 60 degrees cross. It appears that the cross wind limit is indeed 35 knots, so the limit was reached. They could have landed on runway 31, and they did on the second attempt, where the max cross wind would have been only 20 degrees, bringing the cross wind component well below limits. However this runway had less approach facilities.
 
  • #35
russ_watters said:
You're right that the pilot has authority and responsibility, but ATC does hold one trump card: they can shut down their airport. If a pilot viewed the fact that the airport was open (others in the area were closed) as implying it was safe to land, then he was shirking that responsibility. But yes, we are speculating and monday-morning qbing.

Here's some more info on the incident:

http://tinyurl.com/2rk36t

I think the reason why they can't tell you its ok to land is because they don't know how heavy your airplane is. Its possible to land at an airport and not be able to take off from it because the runway is too short.