Mass, fine structure constant & annihilation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between mass, the fine structure constant, and the annihilation of charged particles, particularly in the context of dark matter and theoretical models. Participants explore how these factors influence the probability of annihilation versus scattering, and they reference a specific paper discussing dark electromagnetism and its implications for dark matter.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether high mass and low fine structure constant prevent annihilation of particles with opposite charges.
  • Others argue that while annihilation is always allowed, the mass, momenta, and fine structure constant affect the probability of annihilation versus scattering.
  • A participant references a paper suggesting that annihilation is suppressed for dark matter if the mass is high and the fine structure constant is low, prompting inquiries about the underlying reasons.
  • It is noted that the amplitude for annihilation includes factors related to the fine structure constant and mass, leading to a proposed cross-section that reflects suppression properties.
  • Some participants speculate about the implications for electron-positron annihilation under similar conditions of increased mass and decreased fine structure constant.
  • There is a discussion about the concept of dark matter behaving as a plasma despite the traditional understanding that plasma forms at high temperatures, raising questions about experimental predictions related to this idea.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of mass and fine structure constant on annihilation processes. While some agree that annihilation is generally allowed, others emphasize the conditions under which it may be suppressed or altered, indicating a lack of consensus on the broader implications for dark matter and particle interactions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight that annihilation probabilities decrease with increasing mass and decreasing fine structure constant, but do not reach zero unless in extreme theoretical limits. The discussion also touches on energy conservation and the necessity of coupling for annihilation to occur, indicating complexities in the models being discussed.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in theoretical physics, dark matter research, particle physics, and the implications of fundamental constants on particle interactions may find this discussion relevant.

Alfrez
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Hi,

If the mass is very high and the fine structure constant very small, is it true particles of opposite charge can't annihilate? If yes. What has mass and fine structure constant got to do with annihilation?
 
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Alfrez said:
Hi,

If the mass is very high and the fine structure constant very small, is it true particles of opposite charge can't annihilate?

A particle and its antiparticle are always allowed to annihilate.

If yes. What has mass and fine structure constant got to do with annihilation?

The mass, momenta and fine structure constant all enter into the amplitude for annihilation of charged particles. So they all have an effect on the relative probability that the particle and antiparticle annihilate instead of just scattering from one another.
 
fzero said:
A particle and its antiparticle are always allowed to annihilate.



The mass, momenta and fine structure constant all enter into the amplitude for annihilation of charged particles. So they all have an effect on the relative probability that the particle and antiparticle annihilate instead of just scattering from one another.

I was scrutinizing this paper submitted in the Physical Review D (a valid mainstream journal) written by Caltech physicists:

http://authors.library.caltech.edu/13143/1/ACKprd09.pdf

It is mentioned:

"We explore the feasibility and astrophysical consequences of a new long-range U(1) gauge field (‘‘dark electromagnetism’’) that couples only to dark matter, not to the standard model. The dark matter consists of an equal number of positive and negative charges under the new force, but annihilations are suppressed if the dark-matter mass is sufficiently high and the dark fine-structure constant is sufficiently small"

So why is annihilation suppressed if the particles mass is sufficiently high and the dark fine-structure constant is sufficiently small??
 
Alfrez said:
I was scrutinizing this paper submitted in the Physical Review D (a valid mainstream journal) written by Caltech physicists:

http://authors.library.caltech.edu/13143/1/ACKprd09.pdf

It is mentioned:

"We explore the feasibility and astrophysical consequences of a new long-range U(1) gauge field (‘‘dark electromagnetism’’) that couples only to dark matter, not to the standard model. The dark matter consists of an equal number of positive and negative charges under the new force, but annihilations are suppressed if the dark-matter mass is sufficiently high and the dark fine-structure constant is sufficiently small"

So why is annihilation suppressed if the particles mass is sufficiently high and the dark fine-structure constant is sufficiently small??

Fig. 2 has the leading-order diagrams for annihilation of the DM fermions discussed in the paper. The amplitude for this process contains two factors of [tex]\sqrt{\hat{\alpha}}[/tex], one for each vertex, while the presence of the fermion propagator introduces a scale factor of [tex]1/ m_\chi[/tex]. To obtain the cross section for annihilation in equation (10), this amplitude gets squared, so

[tex]\sigma\sim \left( \frac{\hat{\alpha}}{m_\chi} \right)^2,[/tex]

which has the claimed suppression properties.

Instead of annihilating, these particles tend to just exchange dark photons when they get near one another.
 
fzero said:
Fig. 2 has the leading-order diagrams for annihilation of the DM fermions discussed in the paper. The amplitude for this process contains two factors of [tex]\sqrt{\hat{\alpha}}[/tex], one for each vertex, while the presence of the fermion propagator introduces a scale factor of [tex]1/ m_\chi[/tex]. To obtain the cross section for annihilation in equation (10), this amplitude gets squared, so

[tex]\sigma\sim \left( \frac{\hat{\alpha}}{m_\chi} \right)^2,[/tex]

which has the claimed suppression properties.

Instead of annihilating, these particles tend to just exchange dark photons when they get near one another.

Conceptually speaking. So if let's say the electron and positron were to have sufficiently higher mass and sufficiently smaller fine structure constant. They couldn't annihilate too but just exchange photons when they get near one another??
 
Alfrez said:
Conceptually speaking. So if let's say the electron and positron were to have sufficiently higher mass and sufficiently smaller fine structure constant. They couldn't annihilate too but just exchange photons when they get near one another??

The probability for annihilation just gets smaller as the mass increases and fine structure constant decreases. It only goes to zero in the singular limits where the fine structure constant is literally zero or the mass is infinite. This isn't really the whole story, because if we were actually talking about the electron, there are other couplings that would allow the electron and positron to annihilate.

If a particle has no couplings to anything else, annihilation is forbidden by energy conservation. There would be no channel for the energy of the particle-antiparticle pair to go anywhere. However there are no completely noninteracting particles known to exist.
 
fzero said:
The probability for annihilation just gets smaller as the mass increases and fine structure constant decreases. It only goes to zero in the singular limits where the fine structure constant is literally zero or the mass is infinite. This isn't really the whole story, because if we were actually talking about the electron, there are other couplings that would allow the electron and positron to annihilate.

If a particle has no couplings to anything else, annihilation is forbidden by energy conservation. There would be no channel for the energy of the particle-antiparticle pair to go anywhere. However there are no completely noninteracting particles known to exist.

Thanks. I'd like to inquire about plasma. It says "If mx is sufficiently large and alpha is sufficiently small, annihilations of DM particles through the new force freeze out in the early universe and are negligible today, despite there being equal numbers of positively- and negatively-charged particles. The dark matter in our model is therefore a plasma, which could conceivably lead to interesting collective effects in the DM dynamics." and "Although there are new light degrees of freedom, their temperature is naturally lower than that of the SM plasma, thereby avoiding constraints from Big-Bang Nucleosynthesis (BBN)."

So lower temperature plasma they are proposing dark matter to be. We know plasma is only if temperature is high. You think it's possible for dark matter to be lower temperature plasma? Any experimental predictions you can give that can refute or confirm it?
 
Alfrez said:
So lower temperature plasma they are proposing dark matter to be. We know plasma is only if temperature is high. You think it's possible for dark matter to be lower temperature plasma? Any experimental predictions you can give that can refute or confirm it?

SM matter only forms a plasma at high energies. The fermion considered in the paper is a hidden sector and behaves differently. As for comparison with experiment, I'd suggest reading the rest of the paper. I'm sure they give references to experimental results that would constrain their model.
 

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