How Do I Express Mass and e in Natural Units?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around expressing mass and the electric charge (e) in natural units, specifically in the context of calculating coefficients for the massive Higgs Lagrangian. Participants explore the implications of setting ħ and c to 1, and how this affects the representation of masses and the fine structure constant.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using the masses of the Higgs, W, and Z bosons as 125.09±0.21 GeV, 80.4 GeV, and 91.2 GeV respectively, and proposes that e should be expressed as 2√(απ), where α is the fine structure constant.
  • Another participant emphasizes that setting ħ = c = 1 does not eliminate all units, noting that masses still retain dimensions and should be specified accordingly.
  • A later reply reiterates the need for clarity regarding the unit system used, particularly in relation to the dimension of electric charge and the fine structure constant.
  • One participant points out that in quantum field theory (QFT) textbooks, energy is often used for all units, and suggests setting ε₀ = 1, while also mentioning that particle masses should be cited in GeV.
  • Another participant confirms the relationship between the fine structure constant and electric charge, stating that e can be expressed as √(4πα) in the context provided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of specifying units when discussing mass and charge in natural units. There is no consensus on the exact values or unit systems to be used, indicating that multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the unit system and the definitions of mass and charge. The discussion does not resolve the specific values or the appropriate context for their use.

QuantumSkippy
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Hi Everyone,

I have to calculate the coefficients of the massive Higgs Lagrangian in natural units, ħ = c = 1.

Do I assume firstly that, in these units the masses of the Higgs, W and Z are the usual,
125.09±0.21, 80.4, 91.2 respectively, and secondly that e has to have the value 2√(απ), where α is the Fine Structure Constant? This seems to make sense.

Please tell me if these values are correct and if not, what the values are and how they come about.

Your assistance will be greatly appreciated!

Have fun with Physics!
 
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Setting \hbar = c = 1 doesn't get rid of all of your units - masses still have dimension, so you need to specify the units when you cite a mass.

Similarly, you should be clear about electromagnetic units. There are units where e is dimensionless, but unless you specify that unit system, I can't tell you the relation between electric charge and the fine structure constant.
 
king vitamin said:
Setting \hbar = c = 1 doesn't get rid of all of your units - masses still have dimension, so you need to specify the units when you cite a mass.

Similarly, you should be clear about electromagnetic units. There are units where e is dimensionless, but unless you specify that unit system, I can't tell you the relation between electric charge and the fine structure constant.

Thanks for replying.

The unit system being used would be the one most commonly employed by particle physicists. I would be happy to know the values in the most commonly used system.

Cheers
 
In QFT textbooks one often uses energy for all units, and sets \epsilon_0 = 1. If temperature is ever used, also set k_B = 1.

So you should be sure to put the units on the numbers you gave to the particle masses you mentioned (they are all in GeV). The fine structure constant in SI units is

<br /> \alpha = \frac{e^2}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 \hbar c}<br />

so clearly

<br /> e = \sqrt{4 \pi \alpha}<br />

as you said.
 
king vitamin said:
In QFT textbooks one often uses energy for all units, and sets \epsilon_0 = 1. If temperature is ever used, also set k_B = 1.

So you should be sure to put the units on the numbers you gave to the particle masses you mentioned (they are all in GeV). The fine structure constant in SI units is

<br /> \alpha = \frac{e^2}{4 \pi \epsilon_0 \hbar c}<br />

so clearly

<br /> e = \sqrt{4 \pi \alpha}<br />

as you said.
Thanks very much for your help. I have to give a talk and I wanted to make sure I got it right. Really need to do more calculations more often, so that I will be comfortable with the various systems of units. Thanks again! Cheers.
 

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