Mass Inflation Instability in Kerr and Reisnerr black holes.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of mass inflation instability in Kerr and Reissner-Nordström black holes, particularly focusing on its implications near the inner horizon. Participants seek clarification on the concept, its mathematical underpinnings, and related topics such as the nature of singularities and black hole firewalls.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about mass inflation, particularly regarding the behavior of light and particles near the inner horizon of black holes.
  • Another participant suggests that mass inflation relates to perturbation calculations, where the method fails to converge in certain black hole scenarios.
  • There is a discussion about the roles of radial and time directions inside black holes, with a reference to the swapping of these roles across event horizons.
  • A participant questions the concept of a black hole firewall and seeks clarification on its meaning.
  • Concerns are raised about the nature of singularities, with one participant stating that the term "singularity" indicates a breakdown in mathematical descriptions rather than a physical phenomenon.
  • There is a caution against using terms like "repel" and "attract" in the context of singularities, as these concepts may not apply within the framework of general relativity inside a black hole.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the explanations of mass inflation or the implications of singularities, indicating that multiple competing views and uncertainties remain in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of mathematical understanding, which may limit the depth of discussion on complex topics such as perturbation methods and the geometry of black holes.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in theoretical physics, particularly those exploring black hole physics, general relativity, and the mathematical challenges associated with these concepts.

Lamdbaenergy
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What exactly is this mass inflation instability phenomenon that is said to happen near the inner horizon of black holes?
http://jila.colorado.edu/~ajsh/insidebh/realistic.html
I got the nutshell of it, but I think I need someone to really explain this.
 
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Please explain your "nutshell" so we know what you need, and what level you need it at.
Do you know what "mass inflation" refers to, for example?
 
Sorry 'bout that; I don't have a good level of mathematics. I got that light tends towards an infinite blue shift at the inner horizon, as said in the link. The confusing part was where it talked about ingoing and outgoing particles "trying to travel back and forth in time and exceeding the speed of light relative to one another" near the inner horizon and causing some kind of instability, vaporizing any person and or object before it got to the singularity.

To be honest I'm not too familiar with the term "mass inflation" and just got aware of it while I was reading that link. I guess my more specific questions are now:

What happens to radial and time directions r and t inside different black holes?

What is a black hole 'firewall?'

And can the singularity repel stuff out rather than suck it in?Any answer without an extreme amount of much math is fine; I'll attempt my best to understand it.
 
I don't have a good level of mathematics.
So you won't have much GR either, then, and you are trying to find out about the space-time geometry inside a black hole?
Have you gone through the basics with non-rotating, neutral charge, black holes? (References below JIC.)

I don't think I can give you a complete explanation in one go. Instead I'll try pointing you in a useful direction.

Loosely. What the article is referring to is a method of doing a calculation called a "perturbation" where you start with the well-known solutions and then tweak the situation a little - i.e. you start modelling the Earth as a sphere, then gradually account for how the Earth diverges from perfectly spherical after working out the results for the simpler shape. The calculation usually involves a lot of steps - think of an infinite sum. This is not a problem when the terms get smaller and smaller in a nice way so the overall sum converges, and this is what normally happens like when you want to figure the gravity of the Earth. However, if you try to use this method for specific types of black hole, the perturbation calculation no longer converges everywhere. You can think of the incoming and outgoing "streams" as an artifact of the calculation method. The "instability" just means that the calculation method fails.

Bottom line is that this is one of those things where you need the maths.

Per your specific questions:
What happens to radial and time directionsr and t inside different black holes?
Time and space swap roles across the event horizons
http://www.einstein-online.info/spotlights/changing_places
http://www.jimhaldenwang.com/black_hole.htm
... because of the symmetry, it is useful to define a radial direction and a couple of angular ones for space.
What is a black hole 'firewall?'
Firewall: have you seen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewall_(physics)
And can the singularity repel stuff out rather than suck it in?
I suspect you are being glib here, but the key to figuring out relativity is to be careful with how you say things.

The "singularity" is just the name given to the situation where our maths fail - it has no physical meaning. It's just a mathy way of saying "we don't know what's going on here". You can see this with just normal gravity ... the force is given by ##F=GMm/r^2##, and you can see that the force blows up at ##r=0##. It just means that the equation does not work when the small mass m is very close to the center of the big one M. Same with the singularity of a black hole.

"Repel" and "attract" are terms that make no sense in space-time ... these are concepts that require a well-defined time axis. Inside the black hole you don't have one, so the articles are playing a bit loose with the terminology. If you've followed the basic stuff above, you may have a better shot at figuring what the authors you are trying to understand are trying to talk about.
 

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