Mathematica Tough Log Integration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenges of performing a specific logarithmic integration using Mathematica. Participants explore the possibility of obtaining an algebraic solution rather than resorting to numerical integration, while addressing the behavior of the integrand over a defined region.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a complex integral involving logarithmic and square root functions, seeking an algebraic solution.
  • Another participant suggests that if Mathematica cannot solve the integral, it may indicate the absence of an analytical solution.
  • Some participants discuss the possibility of simplifying the integrand by hand, with mixed results regarding its impact on the integration problem.
  • There are mentions of the integration bounds being related to the limits of the function in the positive E1 region.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about their limits and considers the need for further review of their setup.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether an analytical solution exists, and there are differing opinions on the effectiveness of simplifications attempted. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to take.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the integrand is valid over the specified region, and the limits correspond to points where the integrand crosses the axis. There is an acknowledgment of potential mistakes in the setup that may affect the integration process.

Hepth
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I have an integration to perform

[tex]\sqrt{\text{E1}^2-m^2} Log\left( \frac{m^2-m_B E1-m_B\sqrt{E1^2-m^2}}{m^2-m_B E1+m_B \sqrt{E1^2-m^2}}\right)[/tex]
Code:
Sqrt[E1^2 - m^2]
  log((m^2 - mB (Sqrt[E1^2 - m^2] + E1))/(
  mB (Sqrt[E1^2 - m^2] - E1) + m^2))

over the region {E1,m,mB/2}

E1 is the variable. m is the minimum. mB/2 the max.

The integrand is valid over that region, and the two limits are both the points where the integrand crosses the axis.

I'd like an algebraic solution if possible. I can always go to numerical integration, but I'd prefer not to at this stage.

Mathematica won't solve it without limits, it just spits out the integral again. Same thing with the limits, but takes about 5 minutes to spit out the input.

Anyone have any non-numerical ideas?the plot:
Code:
tmp2 = Sqrt[E1^2 - m^2]
   Log[(m^2 - mB (Sqrt[E1^2 - m^2] + E1))/(
   mB (Sqrt[E1^2 - m^2] - E1) + m^2)];
tmp3 = tmp2 /. {mB -> 5000., m -> 100., \[Lambda]2 -> 1.} // 
  FullSimplify;
Plot[tmp3, {E1, 100, 6000}, PlotRange -> {{0, 3000}, {0, 40000}}]
 
Last edited:
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I think my limits are too high... nevermind.

EDIT: no theyre not, :) please help
 
Last edited:
Have you attempted to simplify the integrand by hand?
 
yeah, it simplifies a little, but doesn't change the problem. I think I made a mistake somewhere though, so give me another day before trying this. It'll probably change.
 
I simplified it some. Still a problem. Original equation updated.

The integration bounds are the same as the functions limits in the positive E1 region.
 
Usually, if Mathematica cannot solve the integral then that means that there is no analytical solution. I.e. Mathematica can do pretty much any integral that you would find in a book.

The only case where I have found a problem where an integral would not solve and I could do something about it was when there was some coordinate transformation that I could make which simplified it into something that was solvable.
 

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