Mathematical Physics for Grade 12 Student | Canada Universities

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the considerations of a grade 12 student in Canada contemplating a mathematical physics program versus a traditional physics program for undergraduate studies. Participants explore the differences between these programs, the necessity of computer science courses, and the importance of lab work in relation to theoretical physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the choice between mathematical physics and physics may depend on the student's interest in mathematics versus lab work, with one noting that mathematical physics is often seen as better preparation for theoretical work in graduate studies.
  • There is a discussion about the necessity of computer science courses, with some arguing that basic programming skills are essential for both theoretical and experimental physics, while others express concern about the requirement in certain programs.
  • Participants mention that many reputable Canadian universities, including Waterloo and U of T, offer strong programs in mathematical physics, and the choice may ultimately depend on personal preferences regarding location and campus environment.
  • Some argue that lab work is crucial for a well-rounded physics education, even for theorists, while others share experiences of pursuing theoretical physics with minimal lab requirements.
  • There are differing opinions on whether experimental work is strictly necessary for an undergraduate degree in physics, with some participants advocating for its inclusion as essential to the discipline.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the importance of computer science and lab work in physics education. While some agree on the necessity of programming skills, others question the requirement of lab work for theoretical physicists. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the essential components of an undergraduate physics education.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the variability in program requirements across different universities, particularly regarding computer science and lab work. There is also mention of personal experiences that may not reflect broader trends in physics education.

  • #31
xAXISx said:
While Mathematical Physics may be more 'theoretical' in nature, you're not really limited in your choices when it comes to graduate school. There are very few schools that even offer a Mathematical Physics program, meaning most schools will take Mathematical Physics and regular Physics to be on par with each other.

About the CS requirement, all Physics students (Mathematical and otherwise) are required to take PHYS 139 - Scientific Computer Programming in term 1B. This is an antirequisite to basically every intro CS course, eliminating your possibility of getting a minor in Math or CS. That's a kick in the teeth, math and CS are ideal minors for a Physics degree, but Waterloo is a little backwards.

Wait, are you saying I get all the options I would have with a physics degree from a mathematical physics degree? I notice a lot of people do some sort of engineering for graduate after getting a physics degree; would I be able do that too? - Not that that is my intention but I do need some sort of backup plan if I don't make it as a researcher.

About the PHYS 139, are you sure it applies to all mathematical physics students, rather than just the ones doing it under faculty of science? I don't see it on this course list but maybe it's outdated:

http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/AM_Dept/undergrad/mathphysnew.shtml
 
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  • #32
aXiom_dt said:
Wait, are you saying I get all the options I would have with a physics degree from a mathematical physics degree? I notice a lot of people do some sort of engineering for graduate after getting a physics degree; would I be able do that too? - Not that that is my intention but I do need some sort of backup plan if I don't make it as a researcher.

About the PHYS 139, are you sure it applies to all mathematical physics students, rather than just the ones doing it under faculty of science? I don't see it on this course list but maybe it's outdated:

http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/AM_Dept/undergrad/mathphysnew.shtml

My guess is yes you would have the same options open to you that a normal physics major would, except you'd have more of a mathematical background. I'm not an expert in that field though.

To be completely honest, I wasn't really aware of the mathematical physics plan directly through the Faculty of Math. I see your required to take MATH 135 (Algebra), which leads me to believe you apply for just plain Mathematics during application procedure. Mathematical Physics through the faculty of science is a lot less applied math courses and more Physics with Honours math courses.

If you apply directly as Mathematical Physics, you'll end up in the plan listed on:
http://www.ucalendar.uwaterloo.ca/SCI/physics.html . Sorry I was a bit confused, http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/AM_Dept/prospective/howto.shtml says that you declare you major to be Mathematical Physics after the first year, so you apply as just general mathematics. In that case, you're right, you wouldn't need to take PHYS 139.
 
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  • #33
xAXISx said:
I'm currently a first year physics student at the University of Waterloo.

Toronto is better in the Sciences, whereas Waterloo is obviously more engineering and math focused. Still your call, but no need to rush to Waterloo over it's rankings in Macleans. Notice Waterloo is only the best when not compared to any of the 'good' schools like Toronto, McGill, Western, McMaster, etc.. Just throwing that out there.

Good look choosing,
Joey Robert.

Are you taking co-op or regular? One reason why Waterloo appeals to me is that my dream job would be working at the Perimeter Institute, with which Waterloo is 'closely affiliated'. Waterloo's Applied Mathematics department also has this Undergraduate Research Program where it takes a handful of students to work on a research project over the summer and: 'For students in the Mathematical Physics program there is the possibility of working with researchers in the Institute for Quantum Computing and the Perimeter Institute', here's link:

http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/AM_Dept/undergrad/research.shtml

Would it be possible to do something similar like this for co-op? I was confident in doing regular before, since I do not need the money, but if co-op can help me get the ideal job in the future then I would gladly spend an extra year as an undergraduate student just to get my foot in the door.

Does anyone know what co-op for mathematical physics is like?
 
  • #34
Almost every physics / mathematics department in Canada has NSERC undergraduate summer research awards (the Canadian version of NSF REUs). They just may not advertise it until the application deadline is near. Be warned that the physics ones are very competitive: the basically throw away everyone with less than an 80% average.
 
  • #35
Hmm, how many people would be enrolled in the mathematical physics program? Does anyone have an estimate? Or in the entire Applied Math department? I would just like to know what the competition is like for these NSERC awards.

Also, is it mostly grades that get you these awards? Or do the extracurriculars play a big role as well?
 

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