Mathematically describe this function

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around mathematically describing a periodic potential function, with references to the Heaviside function and various mathematical constructs. Participants explore the representation of the potential in terms of summations and piecewise functions, indicating a complex relationship between the variables involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants suggest using the Heaviside function and floor functions to model the periodic nature of the potential. There are attempts to express the function in terms of summations and piecewise definitions, with some questioning the effectiveness of these approaches. Others express uncertainty about the Heaviside function's behavior and its implications for their formulations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various mathematical representations being proposed. Some participants have provided specific formulations, while others are still grappling with the concepts and seeking clarification on the use of certain functions. There is a mix of ideas being explored without a clear consensus on the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention constraints such as the need to integrate the function later and the potential complexity introduced by using floor functions. There is also a reference to specific values for parameters in the context of their examples, indicating a practical application of the theoretical discussion.

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Homework Statement


This one
Capturenn.PNG

Homework Equations



ALL of them!

The Attempt at a Solution



This is a beginning to a long physics problems, but the idea is to describe the potential above as something periodical. For example:

This potential
Capturem.PNG

can be written as ##V(x)=\sum _n [H(x-na)-H(x-na-\frac a 3)]## if ##H(x)## is Heaviside function.

Ok, back to original problem. I have no idea how to do it. I tried to work with periodic absolute values, but, it doesn't work out the way it should. Any ideas?
 
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Can you use a floor function?
 
Each rising/falling half interval is .5a long. So. we want H(x-0)*(2*U/a)x-2(H(x-.5a)*(2*U/a)x+2H(x-a)*(2*U/a)x-... This way the second heaviside function cancels the first when it comes into action at x=.5a, and the third cancels the second when it comes into action at x=a, etc. The U/(.5a) is the slope of the line y = U/(.5a)*x+b. Basically we want the slope to always have the value of either U/(.5a) or -U/(.5a). So if the slope before X=k is U/(.5a), then we have to subtract 2(U/(.5a)) to get a slope of -U/(.5a). For convenience, I wrote U/(.5a)=2(U/a) in the following discussion

So this would be written (2*U/a)*x + ∑ 2*(-1)^(i+1)*H(x-(.5i*a-.5a))*(2*U/a)*x

Where the summation is from i=2 to infinity

(or if the picture isn't supposed to imply that the function works for all x, then from i=2 to n, where n is the number of ups+downs there are total, so I guess 7 in this case. But then we would have to add to the summation one last function in order to cancel out the 8th heaviside function. So we would just + H(x-(.5*9*a-.5a))*(U/a)*x*(-1)^(i+1) )

This would work assuming that the heaviside function H(x-k) makes the function equal to 1 when x>= k. But if not, then oops, I forgot what the Heaviside function is.

Edit: fixed.
 
Last edited:
robphy said:
Can you use a floor function?

I could, but I don't want to because I have never used or seen them in my life. (I later have to integrate this function, and I have no idea how would I do that with floor function)

rhino1000 said:
Each rising/falling half interval is .5a long. So. we want H(x-0)*(2*U/a)x-2(H(x-.5a)*(2*U/a)x+2H(x-a)*(2*U/a)x-... This way the second heaviside function cancels the first when it comes into action at x=.5a, and the third cancels the second when it comes into action at x=a, etc. The U/(.5a) is the slope of the line y = U/(.5a)*x+b. Basically we want the slope to always have the value of either U/(.5a) or -U/(.5a). So if the slope before X=k is U/(.5a), then we have to subtract 2(U/(.5a)) to get a slope of -U/(.5a). For convenience, I wrote U/(.5a)=2(U/a) in the following discussion

So this would be written (2*U/a)*x + ∑ 2*(-1)^(i+1)*H(x-(.5i*a-.5a))*(2*U/a)*x

Where the summation is from i=2 to infinity

(or if the picture isn't supposed to imply that the function works for all x, then from i=2 to n, where n is the number of ups+downs there are total, so I guess 7 in this case. But then we would have to add to the summation one last function in order to cancel out the 8th heaviside function. So we would just + H(x-(.5*9*a-.5a))*(U/a)*x*(-1)^(i+1) )

This would work assuming that the heaviside function H(x-k) makes the function equal to 1 when x>= k. But if not, then oops, I forgot what the Heaviside function is.

Edit: fixed.

Hmmmm... Maybe I'm writing it wrong but this is what mathematica gives me for ##n=3## if ##U=100## and ##a=1##

Capturekl.PNG
 
skrat said:

Homework Statement


This one
View attachment 82061

Homework Equations



ALL of them!

The Attempt at a Solution



This is a beginning to a long physics problems, but the idea is to describe the potential above as something periodical. For example:

This potential
View attachment 82062
can be written as ##V(x)=\sum _n [H(x-na)-H(x-na-\frac a 3)]## if ##H(x)## is Heaviside function.

Ok, back to original problem. I have no idea how to do it. I tried to work with periodic absolute values, but, it doesn't work out the way it should. Any ideas?

Let for ##u < v## let ##I_{[u,v]}(x)## be the indicator function for the interval ##[u,v]##, defined as
I_{[u,v]}(x) = \begin{cases} 1, &amp; \text{if} \; x \in [u,v] \\<br /> 0, &amp; \text{if} \; x \not\in [u,v]<br /> \end{cases}
Then (assuming that one of the troughs is at ##(0,0)##) your basic building block is ##f(x) =100\, |\,2x/a\,| \, I_{[-a/2,a/2]}(x)##. You can sum translations of that to get the whole function ##F(x)##:
F(x) = \sum_{n=-\infty}^{\infty} f(x - na)
If you don't like the indicator function, but would rather use the Heaviside function, you can write it in two ways:
(1)\; I_{[u,v]}(x) = H(x-u)H(v-x) \\<br /> (2)\; I_{[u,v]}(x) = H(x-u) - H(x-v)<br />
 
This should work.

T = (2*100)*x/a+sum from i=2 to i=10 of (2*(-1)^(i+1)*Heaviside(x-.5*i+.5)*(2*100)*(x-.5*i)/a-200*Heaviside(x-.5*i-.5)*(-1)^i) -200*Heaviside(x-.5)+200*Heaviside(x-1)
 
Last edited:
You can't do a Fourier Series for a sawtooth wave? It's periodic and there should be an example somewhere showing what the result is. You may only need either sines or cosines in the Fourier Series, depending on the time variable for the sawtooth wave.
 
  • #10
try this function :
ssss.PNG
 
Last edited:

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