Matlab PDEs: Differential Equations vs. PDEs

  • Context: MATLAB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter end3r7
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Matlab Pde
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the comparison between plotting phase planes for ordinary differential equations (ODEs) using MATLAB's pplane7 and the challenges of doing the same for partial differential equations (PDEs). Participants explore the similarities and differences in handling these two types of equations, particularly in the context of MATLAB tools.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express familiarity with using pplane7 for plotting phase portraits of systems of two first-order differential equations, but are uncertain about its application to PDEs.
  • One participant questions the types of ODEs for which phase portraits can be plotted, suggesting that not all ODEs are suitable.
  • Another participant provides a detailed explanation of how pplane7 operates, including the transformation of second-order ODEs into first-order systems and the generation of phase portraits.
  • There is a suggestion that understanding the limitations and requirements of pplane7 is crucial for addressing the original question about PDEs.
  • Some participants acknowledge potential language barriers affecting terminology and clarity in the discussion.
  • One participant indicates a lack of access to a recent installation of MATLAB, which may hinder their ability to engage with the topic effectively.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether phase portraits can be effectively created for PDEs, and there are multiple competing views regarding the capabilities and limitations of pplane7.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include uncertainty about the specific conditions under which phase portraits can be created for PDEs, as well as the need for clarity on the input requirements for pplane7.

end3r7
Messages
168
Reaction score
0
I know how to do differential equations and a plot a phase plane with pplane7. But I have no clue how to do the same for pde's.
Is it similar or not at all?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
end3r7 said:
I know how to do differential equations and a plot a phase plane with pplane7.

ANY ode? Aren't you forgetting something? :wink:

end3r7 said:
But I have no clue how to do the same for pde's.
Is it similar or not at all?

If you answered my question you probably now know the answer to yours.
 
Ha, good one. =)

Hopefully it won't be too dissimilar. Any hints or should I just read the docs at mathworks.com?
 
For what kinds of ordinary differential equations can you plot a phase portrait? (Hint: not just for any old ODE!)

BTW, a friendly moderator should probably move this entire thread to the differential equations subforum.
 
Basically I use pplane7, so any system of two first order differential equations I believe.
 
What does pplane7 do? You tell me!

end3r7 said:
Basically I use pplane7, so any system of two first order differential equations I believe.

Let's back up. When you say "plot a phase plane", I think you mean "sketch a phase portrait". I have used MATLAB in the past, but I haven't used in recently and I am not familiar with "pplane7".

I have been assuming that given a second order ODE for y in terms of x, pplane7 obtains the corresponding autonomous first order system of ODEs u=y, v=y\prime and numerically plots the phase portrait in the u,v plane. For example, given the van der Pol equation governing a nonlinear spring
<br /> y\prime \prime + y = \mu \, (y - y^2) y\prime<br />
the first order autonomous system is
<br /> \dot{u} = v, \; \; \dot{v} = -u + \mu \, (1-u^2) \, v<br />
and the corresponding flow on R^2 = \left{ (u, \, v): u, \, v \in R \right} is generated by the vector field
<br /> v \, \partial_u + \left( -u + \mu \, (1-u^2) \, v \right) \, \partial_v<br />
The integral curves of this vector field are the phase curves, and plotting a judicious selection of phase curves (in this case, there is a unique closed phase curve, and the other phase curves approach it as time increases, so it is a limit cycle) gives the phase portrait. This phase portrait gives a vivid picture of the behavior of solutions to the original ODE.

Does this look familiar? (See Arnold, Ordinary Differential Equations for many more examples.)

From your responses I am guessing you are not sure what pplane7 does either, and that this is part of the problem. I was trying to get you to realize that figuring out exactly what pplane7 is the first step in answering your own question. Do you have some on-line help which explains what is acceptable input for pplane7?

Once you understand why whatever restrictions on the acceptable input are mathematically necessary (don't forget the possibility that you don't want to consider higher dimensional phase portraits!), you will be in a better position to start thinking about whether phase portraits make sense if you start with a PDE instead of an ODE.
 
http://www.math.hmc.edu/~depillis/PCMI2005WEBSITE/DAY4/phaseplanes.pdf

Here is pplane7

You input in a system, first order, with two equations.
 
Last edited:
Oh, and sorry for the terminology... english is not my first language, so I probably will say something and maybe mean another at times =P
 
My attempt to mimic Socrates has evidently run afoul of a technical limitation: I don't have at hand a recent installation of matlab. FWIW my expection is that the answer to your (refined and restated question) will be that you shouldn't expect to make phase portraits except under the circumstances where this is standard practice.

I suggest that you ask a friendly moderator to move this thread to the Computers forum at PF.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K