Meissner sees Penrose-type circles in Planck CMB map

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the recent paper by Meissner et al. that reports the observation of ring-type structures, referred to as "Penrose-type circles," in the high-resolution Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) maps from the Planck satellite. Participants explore the implications of these findings, the validity of the observations, and the theoretical framework surrounding them, particularly in relation to Conformal Cyclic Cosmology (CCC).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express interest in the findings, noting the clustering of the circles and the qualitative differences between the northern and southern galactic hemispheres.
  • Others question the validity of the observations, citing concerns about the signal-to-noise ratio and the potential for systematic errors in the satellite data.
  • A participant mentions the theoretical implications of the circles, suggesting they may indicate gravitational effects from prior universes according to Penrose's CCC model.
  • There is a call for statistical comparisons to validate the findings, with some arguing that without such comparisons, the paper lacks credibility.
  • One participant expresses a desire for Meissner et al. to publish their findings independently of Penrose to ensure authenticity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the findings or their implications. There are competing views regarding the significance of the observations and the reliability of the data.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the absence of statistical comparisons in the paper, which raises questions about the robustness of the claims. Additionally, there are concerns regarding the potential influence of systematic errors in the satellite data on the observed structures.

marcus
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Meissner et al just posted a paper where they see those circles in the high res. microwave sky of Planck.

Who knows if this is real, or what it would mean if it were confirmed? Meissner has a followup paper in preparation with Penrose and others.

Either way I think it's pretty interesting. check out their CMB maps with the circles overlay.

The circles seem to be clustered, not randomly distributed. And there is a qualitative difference between N and S galactic hemispheres.

http://arxiv.org/abs/1307.5737
Structures in the Planck map of the CMB
Daniel An, Krzysztof A. Meissner, Pawel Nurowski
(Submitted on 22 Jul 2013)
We present the results of the quest for ring-type structures on the maps observed by the Planck satellite.

BTW I have the highest respect for Kris Meissner, he is an associate of Jerzy Lewandowski and of Hermann Nicolai and he impresses me as the kind of person who would not fool himself. So make of it what you want---I take the paper seriously. It could be wrong, but IMHO it is not to be immediately dismissed.
 
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What are "Penrose-type circles"?
 
Hello CCC! We meet again. According to the model. The very early universe is smooth turned lumpy back to smooth again.

The paper suggest multiple rings?... or did i missed something
 
I think the signal to noise ratio remains unconvincing. I'm very suspicious of the north-south alignment, which really makes it look like some kind of systematic effect. Why not east-west or south-southwest, etc.?
 
Very interesting Marcus , thanks for posting.
 
marcus said:
Meissner et al just posted a paper where they see those circles in the high res. microwave sky of Planck.

Who knows if this is real, or what it would mean if it were confirmed? Meissner has a followup paper in preparation with Penrose and others.

Either way I think it's pretty interesting. check out their CMB maps with the circles overlay.

The circles seem to be clustered, not randomly distributed. And there is a qualitative difference between N and S galactic hemispheres.

http://arxiv.org/abs/1307.5737
Structures in the Planck map of the CMB
Daniel An, Krzysztof A. Meissner, Pawel Nurowski
(Submitted on 22 Jul 2013)
We present the results of the quest for ring-type structures on the maps observed by the Planck satellite.

BTW I have the highest respect for Kris Meissner, he is an associate of Jerzy Lewandowski and of Hermann Nicolai and he impresses me as the kind of person who would not fool himself. So make of it what you want---I take the paper seriously. It could be wrong, but IMHO it is not to be immediately dismissed.
There's no statistical comparison. It's a worthless paper without that. And we would also have to be sure that they're not due to systematic errors in the satellite.
 
Interested paper I look forward to collaberative findings. Thanks for posting it
 
'Penrose circles', if verified, may show gravitational effects of prior universes, according to his Conformal Cyclic Cosmology model...

Somewhere in these forums is at least one thread with links to a Penrose talk with wonderful illustrations. Even if you don't like the theory, those are really worthwhile. In that talk he readily discusses that the model has a number of open issues to be resolved. At least such unproven ideas give astronomers something specific to look for within the data. Poor signal to noise seemed an obstacle to other researchers being able to confirm a 2010 finding in which Penrose claimed the circles were observed.

A few bits more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology#Physical_implications

It would be nice if Meissner et al published their work without any collaboration with Penrose, just as an assurance for authenticity. What's next??
 

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