Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Meissner sees Penrose-type circles in Planck CMB map

  1. Jul 22, 2013 #1


    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member
    Dearly Missed

    Meissner et al just posted a paper where they see those circles in the high res. microwave sky of Planck.

    Who knows if this is real, or what it would mean if it were confirmed? Meissner has a followup paper in preparation with Penrose and others.

    Either way I think it's pretty interesting. check out their CMB maps with the circles overlay.

    The circles seem to be clustered, not randomly distributed. And there is a qualitative difference between N and S galactic hemispheres.

    Structures in the Planck map of the CMB
    Daniel An, Krzysztof A. Meissner, Pawel Nurowski
    (Submitted on 22 Jul 2013)
    We present the results of the quest for ring-type structures on the maps observed by the Planck satellite.

    BTW I have the highest respect for Kris Meissner, he is an associate of Jerzy Lewandowski and of Hermann Nicolai and he impresses me as the kind of person who would not fool himself. So make of it what you want---I take the paper seriously. It could be wrong, but IMHO it is not to be immediately dismissed.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 23, 2013 #2


    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    What are "Penrose-type circles"?
  4. Jul 23, 2013 #3
    Hello CCC! We meet again. According to the model. The very early universe is smooth turned lumpy back to smooth again.

    The paper suggest multiple rings?... or did i missed something
  5. Jul 23, 2013 #4


    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I think the signal to noise ratio remains unconvincing. I'm very suspicious of the north-south alignment, which really makes it look like some kind of systematic effect. Why not east-west or south-southwest, etc.?
  6. Jul 23, 2013 #5
    Very interesting Marcus , thanks for posting.
  7. Jul 23, 2013 #6


    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    There's no statistical comparison. It's a worthless paper without that. And we would also have to be sure that they're not due to systematic errors in the satellite.
  8. Jul 23, 2013 #7
    Interested paper I look forward to collaberative findings. Thanks for posting it
  9. Jul 23, 2013 #8
    'Penrose circles', if verified, may show gravitational effects of prior universes, according to his Conformal Cyclic Cosmology model....

    Somewhere in these forums is at least one thread with links to a Penrose talk with wonderful illustrations. Even if you don't like the theory, those are really worthwhile. In that talk he readily discusses that the model has a number of open issues to be resolved. At least such unproven ideas give astronomers something specific to look for within the data. Poor signal to noise seemed an obstacle to other researchers being able to confirm a 2010 finding in which Penrose claimed the circles were observed.

    A few bits more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology#Physical_implications

    It would be nice if Meissner et al published their work without any collaboration with Penrose, just as an assurance for authenticity. What's next??
Share this great discussion with others via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook