Microsoft's Sleazy Tactics: What Windows Users Need to Know

[JorisL]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

My stance on this can be illustrated by the proverb

"give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"

That's how I approach "skill" in technology and everyday life.
I'm not saying you should be able to install linux from source.
But too many people have to rely on stores to fix something simple (and well-documented) like removing a virus.

I wouldn't expect someone to troubleshoot when his washer gives a certain error code.
But a simple restart should be the least they can think of. Most of the time this doesn't happen.
"Lets call a technician" is the simple solution but it costs money and time (both yours and his).

In the world I would like to live in, people show some curiosity.
Extreme examples are people that can't even change a flat tire next to the highway.
Or people that blindly follow their GPS device and drive into a lake. (A while back some guy turned onto a railroad getting stuck on the tracks).

I'm afraid that's what's happening when everything gets dumbed down too much.

/end ranty post

 

[DaveC426913]

I wouldn't expect someone to troubleshoot when his washer gives a certain error code.
Extreme examples are people that can't even change a flat tire next to the highway.

I can only dream of a world so idyllic that my computer needs to be molly-coddled only as often as my washer throws an error code or my car gets a flat.

[Clipart of Paradise]

[link to classic article 'If Microsoft Made Cars']

 

[JorisL]

I can only dream of a world so idyllic that my computer needs to be molly-coddled only as often as my washer throws an error code or my car gets a flat.

[Clipart of Paradise]

Poor you, the last serious issue I had was when I was on windows.

Edit; no I had another when the steam repository had a faulty commit.

 

[Drakkith]

My stance on this can be illustrated by the proverb

"give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"

I prefer the proverb, "Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime; also teach him how to use commercial fishing equipment and he can keep a thousand people from needing to fish in the first place".

 

[DaveC426913]

Set a man a light, and he's warm for a night.
Set a man alight, and he's warm for the rest of his life.

 

[DaveC426913]

More seriously, yes, it certainly is good for people to learn how to operate something. And you have chosen to.

But they shouldn't have to. They should have a choice. A device meant for domestic use should not require that level of skill. They've been making these things for 40 years.

 

[collinsmark]

There are things that Services Agreement that I find a little disappointing coming from Microsoft. I put together my own computers, each time buying the CPU, motherboard, video card, power supply, memory, case and operating system separately, then assembling it all myself. (Sometimes even Frankensteining parts of my older computers)

So when I read things such as,

"We may automatically check your version of the software and download software updates or configuration changes, including those that prevent you from accessing the Services, playing counterfeit games, or using unauthorized hardware peripheral devices,"​

it makes me a bit nervous. When did Microsoft start authorizing hardware choices? It makes little sense coming from Microsoft: That's the sort of thing that Apple would say.

Then I realized that this Services Agreement also applies to Microsoft's XBox products, and that's probably what this is referring to, not Windows 10. (At least I hope).

Scold Microsoft for this if you like, but I certainly would not use Apple as an example of a company who does better. Apple has been restricting their customers' choices since, well since Apple has been around. Apple requires that you use only the hardware that they tell you to use (if not their own manufactured hardware then their approved hardware, including all their proprietary cables and such) and no other hardware. And they require that you use their hardware the way they tell you to use their hardware. And they require that you enjoy the product in the way that they tell you to enjoy it and no other way.

Now if you own an apple product and you happen to enjoy that product in the way that Apple tells you to enjoy it, then great: then the stars are in alignment and it's a match made in heaven. Win-win.

But C'mon, Apple is an egregious example of a company attempting to restrict how you use its products [and services].

'Everybody watch this episode?
[Edit: Caution: language]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HumancentiPad

 

[STEMucator]

I agree collins. I wonder how long its going to take before Apple starts to slip things into their TOS like Microsoft is doing.

"Section 12c: Apple demands to have access to your whole life."

Lol.

 

[dipole]

I agree collins. I wonder how long its going to take before Apple starts to slip things into their TOS like Microsoft is doing.

"Section 12c: Apple demands to have access to your whole life."

Lol.

I think most Apple users would happily oblige. Being in control of your own life is so DIFFICULT. How much easier would it be if Apple did everything for you?

 

[Hornbein]

Can you explain what that means?

Alexander Hamilton started an organization to steal technology from England, particularly automatic weaving, the power loom.

In the 19th century Germany was notorious for faking English goods. Germans and Japanese were widely considered to be lazy.

 

[William White]

There's no reason to pay 10x times as much for a Mac. Don't like windows? Go Linux.

there are plenty of reasons.

what you mean is that YOU have no reason

 

[William White]

I'm afraid that's what's happening when everything gets dumbed down too much.

/end ranty post

Consumer products should be dumbed down - I don't want to waste my life figuring out how to get a machine to do a task that it is desinged to do.

If granny cannot switch on a computer, plug in a camera, print a photo, and skype the grandkids without having to ask how to do it, then the interface is badly designed.

 

[Student100]

there are plenty of reasons.

what you mean is that YOU have no reason

There's still no reason to pay more for less functionality.

Consumer products should be dumbed down - I don't want to waste my life figuring out how to get a machine to do a task that it is desinged to do.

If granny cannot switch on a computer, plug in a camera, print a photo, and skype the grandkids without having to ask how to do it, then the interface is badly designed.

Dumb downed consumer products have led to our throw away culture. If it took a bit of knowledge to operate something it's much easier to repair by the end user because you're forced to learn how to operate something/are able to collect data and do fault isolation easier.

I'm sure granny would still need help if she never operated a computer before. The learning curve between windows and the mac OS isn't that steep.

 

[William White]

There's still no reason to pay more for less functionality.

you don't get it do you?

some people PREFER the functionality of a mac
some people PREFER the functionality of a pcthere are MANY reasons for this, too many, and too tedious to explain to you.

Be happy with what you have got, and stop whinging that others prefer different products.

 

[Student100]

you don't get it do you?

some people PREFER the functionality of a mac
some people PREFER the functionality of a pcthere are MANY reasons for this, too many, and too tedious to explain to you.

Be happy with what you have got, and stop whinging that others prefer different products.

Seriously? Did you feel attacked or threatened by my post?

You didn't actually respond to my points.

 

[William White]

If it took a bit of knowledge to operate something it's much easier to repair by the end user because you're forced to learn how to operate something/are able to collect data and do fault isolation easier..

I don't know how old you are, but that is NOT true.

I remember when I first started to drive. A second hand car cost a few hundred quid. I spent weekends in scrap yards looking for master cylinders, fuel pumps and radiators and weekends fitting the damn things to keep me on the road. By the time the car had done 100,000 miles it was on its knees.

I can't fix my car. It's guaranteed for 6 years against all mechanical problems. It works. I don't want to spend my life learning how to fix the engine. I want it to get me from A-B without breaking down.

Those crappy days of terrible technology are far behind us thank god.

 

[Student100]

I don't know how old you are, but that is NOT true.

I remember when I first started to drive. A second hand car cost a few hundred quid. I spent weekends in scrap yards looking for master cylinders, fuel pumps and radiators and weekends fitting the damn things to keep me on the road. By the time the car had done 100,000 miles it was on its knees.

I can't fix my car. It's guaranteed for 6 years against all mechanical problems. It works. I don't want to spend my life learning how to fix the engine. I want it to get me from A-B without breaking down.

Those crappy days of terrible technology are far behind us thank god.

Having a service plan makes your technology better? I remember when we designed systems for use by the DoD. The idea was to make it "user friendly" and locked down to a point where they'd need to get a field support contract. Great for the company, piss poor for national security since the soldiers who were supposed to "fix" our equipment, couldn't.

Technology wasn't any better, it was a step back.

 

[William White]

Seriously? Did you feel attacked or threatened by my post?

You didn't actually respond to my points.

Why? I don't care what machine you use; any more than I care what clothes you wear.

its just rather pathetic: the PC/MAC debate has been going for 25 odd years, and its the SAME argument.

You come across as somebody that has not once come across this argument before (amazingly because the net is full of them) so you ask the same boring old questions that have been answered a million times before elsewhere.

 

[Student100]

Why? I don't care what machine you use; any more than I care what clothes you wear.

its just rather pathetic: the PC/MAC debate has been going for 25 odd years, and its the SAME argument.

You come across as somebody that has not once come across this argument before (amazingly because the net is full of them) so you ask the same boring old questions that have been answered a million times before elsewhere.

This makes no sense, if my post was wrong we could talk about it in a logical friendly way. Your post doesn't do that and contributed nothing. This post is also another hand wavy, I'm right cause I said so post.

 

[William White]

Having a service plan makes your technology better?

Are you being deliberately stupid?

I don't get given a guarantee because I will need it. I get a guarantee because the vendor knows I will not need it.If you make a car that is likely break down within the first 5 years of service; and be on the scrap heap before 100,000 miles, would you guarantee it and pick up the tab for repairs?

 

[William White]

This makes no sense, if my post was wrong we could talk about it in a logical friendly way. Your post doesn't do that and contributed nothing. This post is also another hand wavy, I'm right cause I said so post.

You are asking the same tedious questions that have been answered a million times before.

there is no right and wrong - you use the machine that is best for you.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Perhaps it's time to drop this line of conversation. Opinions are getting heated and at the end of the day it just boils down to some people wanting a tonne of functionality on their devices and other people wanting less.

Feel free to consider this the friendly warning.

 

[JorisL]

Consumer products should be dumbed down - I don't want to waste my life figuring out how to get a machine to do a task that it is desinged to do.

If granny cannot switch on a computer, plug in a camera, print a photo, and skype the grandkids without having to ask how to do it, then the interface is badly designed.

But granny has to ask grandson to help her out most of the time.
Indeed what a great interface design...

I see the point you and the others are trying to make, but truth be told I don't know of any technology that works this well.
Take facebook, we all agree it's easy to get started on right?

I haven't had the need to create a page but the other day I accidentally saw a small link where it said you could. (don't even remember where)
What if granny wants to make a page for her favourite crochet club? You can be (almost) sure she has to ask for help.

And that's in my opinion why we need at least some learning curve, always.
Its easier to find out about simple stuff than hitting a wall and having to search what you want for the first time.

I would compare it to using the official documentation for programming language X.
You cannot hope to learn the language by reading the docs, reading those requires getting used to. The same holds for all technology albeit to a lesser extent in general.

Other than that I agree with Ryan_m_b and would like to add that we are mostly at a point where both parties have their view of things.
These views are highly subjective in my opinion. So I'll excuse myself from this circular discussion (I will keep reading though)