Missing Solutions and non-reversible operations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the challenges of identifying missing solutions in equations that involve non-reversible operations. Participants explore how certain operations can lead to extraneous solutions and the implications of these operations on the completeness of solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how to determine if solutions are missing when solving equations with non-reversible operations.
  • Examples are requested to clarify whether the discussion pertains to problems with multiple solutions or uncertainty about the existence of solutions.
  • One participant suggests that checking found values against the original equation can help identify extraneous solutions, highlighting the risks of operations like squaring both sides or dividing by a variable that could be zero.
  • Another participant emphasizes that dividing by a variable that could be zero can lead to missing solutions, and notes that the sine function is not one-to-one, which complicates finding all solutions.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of reversible and irreversible operations, with some participants asserting that certain operations, like division by a variable that could be zero, are inherently risky.
  • One participant mentions that while some operations are reversible, not all functions have inverses, which can lead to missing solutions.
  • Another participant adds substitution to the list of operations that can be performed on equations, noting that algebraic manipulations are generally reversible.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of reversible versus irreversible operations and their implications for finding solutions. There is no consensus on the best approach to handle missing solutions, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their examples, such as the potential for losing solutions when dividing by variables that may be zero or applying non-one-to-one functions. The discussion reflects a variety of perspectives on the handling of operations in mathematical equations.

FAS1998
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How do we deal with missing solutions when we have to solve equations with non-reversible operations? You can always check the solutions to see if solutions are extraneous or not, but how do we know weather or not there are missing solutions to the problem?
 
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Do you have any examples for clarification? Are you talking about a problem where more than 1 solution exists? Or are you referring to a problem where you don't know if a solution exists, or something entirely different?
 
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FAS1998 said:
How do we deal with missing solutions when we have to solve equations with non-reversible operations?
You deal with them by checking that the values you found are actually solutions to the original equation. If you perform operations such as squaring both sides of an equation, there might be extraneous solutions, which won't be solutions of the original equation.

You shouldn't really have "missing" solutions, unless you do things like dividing both sides by a variable whose value could possibly be zero. For example, if you have the equation ##x^2 = x##, it is tempting to divide both sides by x, getting the equation x = 1. That's not the smartest way to solve this equation, though. It's better to rewrite it as ##x^2 - x = 0##, and then factor the left side to ##x(x - 1) = 0##, from which you can obtain both solutions.

Another example is the equation ##\sin(x) = \frac 1 2##. If you naively apply the function ##\sin^{-1}## to both sides, you end up with ##x = \frac \pi 6##. Doing this, you miss out on ##x = \frac{11\pi} 6##, not to mention an infinite number of other solutions.
 
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Mark44 said:
You deal with them by checking that the values you found are actually solutions to the original equation. If you perform operations such as squaring both sides of an equation, there might be extraneous solutions, which won't be solutions of the original equation.

You shouldn't really have "missing" solutions, unless you do things like dividing both sides by a variable whose value could possibly be zero. For example, if you have the equation ##x^2 = x##, it is tempting to divide both sides by x, getting the equation x = 1. That's not the smartest way to solve this equation, though. It's better to rewrite it as ##x^2 - x = 0##, and then factor the left side to ##x(x - 1) = 0##, from which you can obtain both solutions.

Another example is the equation ##\sin(x) = \frac 1 2##. If you naively apply the function ##\sin^{-1}## to both sides, you end up with ##x = \frac \pi 6##. Doing this, you miss out on ##x = \frac{11\pi} 6##, not to mention an infinite number of other solutions.
What do you mean by “things like” dividing by a variable that could be 0? The reason that I would have thought that dividing by a variable and using sin^-1 on both sides of an equation were “unsafe” is because neither are reversible operations. And I can’t think of a good example off the top of my head, but I feel like irreversible operations aren’t always avoidable.
 
FAS1998 said:
What do you mean by “things like” dividing by a variable that could be 0?
Or dividing by, say, x - 1 if x might be 1. There are lots of possibilities.

FAS1998 said:
The reason that I would have thought that dividing by a variable and using sin^-1 on both sides of an equation were “unsafe” is because neither are reversible operations.
You can always divide both sides of an equation by any nonzero quantity, but if you divide by a variable that could possibly be zero, then it's possible to lose solutions. The ##\sin## function is not 1-to-1, so it doesn't have an inverse that is itself a function. (We can, however, limit the domain such that ##\sin## is 1-to-1, but I wasn't doing that in the example I gave.)
FAS1998 said:
And I can’t think of a good example off the top of my head, but I feel like irreversible operations aren’t always avoidable.
I can't think of any examples where you can't determine whether the operation is reversible. There are relatively few things that you can do to both sides of an equation: add/subtract the same quantity, multiply both sides by the same nonzero quantity, divide both sides by the same nonzero quantity, apply some function to both sides. If the function is 1-to-1 (i.e., has an inverse), then the step is reversible, and you won't have extraneous solutions or missing solutions.
 
Mark44 said:
add/subtract the same quantity, multiply both sides by the same nonzero quantity, divide both sides by the same nonzero quantity, apply some function to both sides
I might add one to the list: substitution. Given any equation f=g involving well formed formulae f and g and given the equality x=y for variables (or well formed formulae that place no restrictions on the domain of their free variables) x and y, one can freely replace any occurrence of x in either f or g with y to obtain f'=g'.

Of course there are also the algebraic manipulations permitted by the rules of the algebra. Associativity, commutativity, distributive law, cancellation of inverses, things like that. But those tend to be trivially reversible and are barely worth mentioning.

Then too, from the definition of equality, one gets the ability to assert x=x at any time.
 
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