Modeling the removal of waste from a national park

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter DeusAbscondus
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Modeling
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around modeling the removal of waste from a national park, specifically analyzing the mathematical behavior of the quantity of litter, Q, over a ten-year period based on given rates of change. Participants explore the implications of the mathematical conditions provided, including the negative first derivative and positive second derivative, and consider potential models for Q.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant deduces that the function f(x) must slope negatively and be concave up over the ten-year period based on the given derivatives.
  • Another participant challenges the assumption that Q approaches zero at t=10, suggesting it may level out at a positive value instead.
  • There is a proposal that the function might not be quadratic, with an alternative model suggested in the form of an exponential decay function.
  • A later reply explains the proposed model, indicating that Q(0) represents the initial quantity of litter and Q(∞) represents the quantity as time approaches infinity.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the implications of the proposed model and seek clarification on its meaning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on some aspects of the mathematical behavior of Q, but multiple competing views remain regarding the specific form of the function and the assumptions about its behavior over time.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their understanding of the proposed model and its implications, indicating a dependence on prior knowledge of integrals and mathematical concepts.

DeusAbscondus
Messages
176
Reaction score
0
Hi folks,
This problem is from a trial test (the main test is in one week's time)
Quickly for some background to what I have done maths-wise:
1. a crash course in college level maths in the first semester of Australian academic year: (february 2012 to June 2012) followed by crash course in calculus (july till now) This, just to give you an idea of the level I'm at.

Here is the question/problem, verbatim:

"Data has been recorded over the past 10 years measuring the quantity of litter, Q, removed from a particular park. Over the period $$\frac{dQ}{dt} \text{ is less than 0 and} \frac{d^2Q}{dt^2}\text{ is greater than 0 }$$

i) Draw a neat sketch of Q against t over the last 10 years.
ii) What conclusions can be drawn about the amount of litter over this period?

I deduce from this that:
1. $f(x)$ must slope negatively for the 10 year period (placing the tangent curve below the x-axis) as f'(x) has been less than zero for that period; and
2. the concavity has been positive for the entire period (f''(x) is greater than zero) meaning that f(x) is bending concave up the whole of this time.

Finally, to graph f(x), I chose an abitrary point (what choice did I have here?) up the Q axis, and sketched part of a concave up parabola (a curve whose slope is decreasing, decreasingly) curving down towards Q=0 at point t=10.

Question 1: am i justified in my first 2 assumptions?
Question 2: would my graph be a fair representation of what we know from the problem?
Question 3: is there any reason to support the hypothesis that f(x) is quadratic, f'(x) linear negative and f''(x) positive constant?

thanks guys,
Deus Abs
PS Latex for "less than" and "greater than" ?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
DeusAbscondus said:
Hi folks,
This problem is from a trial test (the main test is in one week's time)
Quickly for some background to what I have done maths-wise:
1. a crash course in college level maths in the first semester of Australian academic year: (february 2012 to June 2012) followed by crash course in calculus (july till now) This, just to give you an idea of the level I'm at.

Here is the question/problem, verbatim:

"Data has been recorded over the past 10 years measuring the quantity of litter, Q, removed from a particular park. Over the period $$\frac{dQ}{dt} \text{ is less than 0 and} \frac{d^2Q}{dt^2}\text{ is greater than 0 }$$

i) Draw a neat sketch of Q against t over the last 10 years.
ii) What conclusions can be drawn about the amount of litter over this period?

I deduce from this that:
1. $f(x)$ must slope negatively for the 10 year period (placing the tangent curve below the x-axis) as f'(x) has been less than zero for that period; and
2. the concavity has been positive for the entire period (f''(x) is greater than zero) meaning that f(x) is bending concave up the whole of this time.

Finally, to graph f(x), I chose an abitrary point (what choice did I have here?) up the Q axis, and sketched part of a concave up parabola (a curve whose slope is decreasing, decreasingly) curving down towards Q=0 at point t=10.

Question 1: am i justified in my first 2 assumptions?
Question 2: would my graph be a fair representation of what we know from the problem?
Question 3: is there any reason to support the hypothesis that f(x) is quadratic, f'(x) linear negative and f''(x) positive constant?

thanks guys,
Deus Abs
PS Latex for "less than" and "greater than" ?

There is no reason to assume that \(Q=0\) at \(t=10\), that would imply no litter at the current time. Also there is no reason to suppose that Q is even heading towards zero it may level out at some positive value.

1. Yes
2. There is no reason to assume that the curve will ever reach the x-axis, or even approach it.
3. There is no reason to suppose the curve is quadratic, in fact there are good reasons to suppose otherwise. Probably something of the form: \(Q(t)=(Q(0)-Q(\infty))\exp(-\lambda t)+Q(\infty)\) with \(Q(0)>Q(\infty)\) would be better.

CB
 
CaptainBlack said:
There is no reason to assume that \(Q=0\) at \(t=10\), that would imply no litter at the current time. Also there is no reason to suppose that Q is even heading towards zero it may level out at some positive value.

1. Yes
2. There is no reason to assume that the curve will ever reach the x-axis, or even approach it.
3. There is no reason to suppose the curve is quadratic, in fact there are good reasons to suppose otherwise. Probably something of the form: \(Q(t)=(Q(0)-Q(\infty))\exp(-\lambda t)+Q(\infty)\) with \(Q(0)>Q(\infty)\) would be better.

CB

Thanks Cap'n. The answers above confirm that I am on the right track and correct some false assumpitons.
However, this is lost on me as I have no idea what it means:
$$Q(t)=(Q(0)-Q(\infty))\exp(-\lambda t)+Q(\infty) \text{ with }Q(0)>Q(\infty)$$

If you were to explicate this a bit I would be appreciative.

(I presume that the expression assumes knowledge of the integral, of which, in the famous words of Sergeant Schultz: "I know nothing")

Deus Abs
 
DeusAbscondus said:
Thanks Cap'n. The answers above confirm that I am on the right track and correct some false assumpitons.
However, this is lost on me as I have no idea what it means:
$$Q(t)=(Q(0)-Q(\infty))\exp(-\lambda t)+Q(\infty) \text{ with }Q(0)>Q(\infty)$$

If you were to explicate this a bit I would be appreciative.

(I presume that the expression assumes knowledge of the integral, of which, in the famous words of Sergeant Schultz: "I know nothing")

Deus Abs

It means that at \(t=0\) the quantity of litter removed over an interval is \(Q(0)\) and that as \(t \to \infty; \ Q(t) \to Q(\infty)\) and the proposed form has the shape specified.

(Put \(Q(0)=0.5\), \(Q(\infty)=1/10\) and \(\lambda=0.1\) and plot the function to see what is going on.Click on the graph below to see in more detail:
[graph]ldvtqukuuc[/graph]

CB
 
Last edited:
CaptainBlack said:
It means that at \(t=0\) the quantity of litter removed over an interval is \(Q(0)\) and that as \(t \to \infty; \ Q(t) \to Q(\infty)\) and the proposed form has the shape specified.

(Put \(Q(0)=0.5\), \(Q(\infty)=1/10\) and \(\lambda=0.1\) and plot the function to see what is going on.Click on the graph below to see in more detail:
[graph]ldvtqukuuc[/graph]

CB

Thanks kindly Cap'n.
Not least for introducing me to the fantastic graphics calculator at Desmos!

Regs,
Deus Abs
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K