Modus Ponens on A Statement of Deduction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of modus ponens in a proof related to mathematical logic, specifically concerning the theorem of specialization. Participants express confusion about the legality and meaning of using modus ponens with statements that include a set of premises (Δ) and the notation for derivation (vdash).

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how modus ponens can be applied to statements involving Δ and vdash, suggesting that the latter are crucial to the meaning of the statement but seem to be ignored.
  • Another participant agrees that the wording in the text is unclear and suggests that the deduction of ∀vP from Δ and the application of modus ponens should lead to a deduction of P(t/v) from Δ.
  • Some participants express confusion about the role of Δ in the proof, noting that the application of modus ponens does not align neatly with the standard form they understand, as Δ appears to be missing in the second part of the argument.
  • There is a distinction made between "informal" and "formal" applications of modus ponens, with one participant arguing that the proof is about formal sentences rather than meta-mathematical statements.
  • One participant highlights that the proof is essentially a proof about proofs, indicating a meta-level discussion regarding the nature of deductions in logic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of confusion and disagreement regarding the application of modus ponens in this context. There is no consensus on the clarity of the text or the legality of the proof as presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the proof involves a meta-mathematical perspective, which may complicate the understanding of how modus ponens is applied. The discussion reflects uncertainty about the formal versus informal interpretations of the statements involved.

darkchild
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This is from a text on mathematical logic. The theorem to be proven (specialization):

If Δ \vdash \forallvP, then Δ \vdash P(t/v), provided that P admits t for v.

My confusion concerns the use of modens ponens in the proof:

Suppose that Δ \vdash \forallvP and P admits t for v. Then modus ponens applied to Δ \vdash \forallvP and \vdash \forallvP \rightarrowP(t/v) (Axiom Scheme A5) gives Δ \vdash P(t/v).

I have never seen this before and do not understand how it is legal or exactly what it means to use modus ponens on statements containing Δ (a set of formulas used as premises) and vdash. It seems the latter are simply ignored, yet they are crucial to the meaning of the statement.
 
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darkchild said:
This is from a text on mathematical logic. The theorem to be proven (specialization):

If Δ \vdash \forallvP, then Δ \vdash P(t/v), provided that P admits t for v.

My confusion concerns the use of modens ponens in the proof:

Suppose that Δ \vdash \forallvP and P admits t for v. Then modus ponens applied to Δ \vdash \forallvP and \vdash \forallvP \rightarrowP(t/v) (Axiom Scheme A5) gives Δ \vdash P(t/v).

I have never seen this before and do not understand how it is legal or exactly what it means to use modus ponens on statements containing Δ (a set of formulas used as premises) and vdash. It seems the latter are simply ignored, yet they are crucial to the meaning of the statement.

I looks like what is intended is that the deduction of ##\forall Pv## from ##\Delta## and modus ponens applied to ##\forall Pv## and ##\forall Pv\rightarrow P(t/v)## gives a deduction of ##P(t/v)## from ##\Delta##. I would agree that the wording is a bit wonky, though.
 
What I don't understand is the role played by the symbol Δ. I understand modus ponens as

1. S
2. S → T
∴ T

That cannot be neatly applied to this proof:

1. Δ \vdash \forallvP would correspond to S
2. \vdash\forallvPP(t/v) should correspond to S → T

However, the formula that corresponds to S in step one is different than the formula that corresponds to S in step 2. It's missing Δ.
 
darkchild said:
What I don't understand is the role played by the symbol Δ. I understand modus ponens as

1. S
2. S → T
∴ T

That cannot be neatly applied to this proof:

1. Δ \vdash \forallvP would correspond to S
2. \vdash\forallvPP(t/v) should correspond to S → T

However, the formula that corresponds to S in step one is different than the formula that corresponds to S in step 2. It's missing Δ.

##\forall vP## corresponds to ##S## and ##P(t/v)## corresponds to ##T##.

Again, the wording of the text is a little bit off in my opinion. They aren't applying "informal" modus ponens to the meta-mathematical statements ##\Delta\vdash \forall vP## and ##\vdash \left(\forall vP\rightarrow P(t/v)\right)##; they're applying "formal" modus ponens to the formal sentences ##\forall vP## and ##\forall vP\rightarrow P(t/v)##.

Note that this is an informal proof that there is a formal deduction of ##P(t/v)## from ##\Delta## given the fact that there is a formal deduction of ##\forall vP## from ##\Delta##. It's basically a proof about proofs, and it's more than a little bit meta.
 

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