Most Underrated Rock Drummer?

  • #1
Hornbein
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To be underrated you have to
1) be really good
2) have had lots of exposure, playing on hit records and touring and such
3) nevertheless go unnoticed

I've been making a fancy video with Blue Oyster Cult's Don't Fear The Reaper. Hearing it many times I gradually focused on drummer Albert Bouchard. Such understated subtlety, taste, and originality.
 
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  • #2
Hornbein said:
To be underrated you have to
1) be really good
2) have had lots of exposure, playing on hit records and touring and such
3) nevertheless go unnoticed

I've been making a fancy video with Blue Oyster Cult's Don't Fear The Reaper. Hearing it many times I gradually focused on drummer Albert Bouchard. Such understated subtlety, taste, and originality.
Ian Paice.
 
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  • #3
Sean Kinney
 
  • #4
pinball1970 said:
Ian Paice.
Nah man. He gets a lot of praise.
 
  • #5
Hornbein said:
Nah man. He gets a lot of praise.
As much as Neil Peart and John Bonham? And of course Keith Moon, the non drummers drummer.
 
  • #6
Hornbein said:
Nah man. He gets a lot of praise.
The evidence. lets look at point one. How good was he? The opening is pretty insane, this is 1971. The break at 1.03 is aggressive as hell but he puts this lovely little triplet in the middle on his snare. I only spotted it when I slowed it down to half speed. (I did that by moving the stylus speed between 33 and 44 rpm on my girlfriends record player. Once discovered I started doing it with Buddy Rich to work out his tricks until one day, she came home put a record on and the damn thing stuck. It would only play 16 rpm or so. Man I paid for that one!)

 
  • #7
Point 2- Yes Purple were very big between 1970-76. Paice continued with Whitesnake then Purple again from 1985.
 
  • #8
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  • #12
Keith moon drum solo

 
  • #13
Ian Paice - he would have been about 23 here.

 
  • #14
Mayhem said:
Sean Kinney
Seems like a cool guy, I watched a couple of interviews. I dont know much of the music, can you post a showcase piece?
 
  • #15
Karen Carpenter

 
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  • #16
pinball1970 said:
Seems like a cool guy, I watched a couple of interviews. I dont know much of the music, can you post a showcase piece?
Alice in Chains drummer during their entire existence.
 
  • #18
Mayhem said:
Alice in Chains drummer during their entire existence.
A drum solo? Or one or two definitive tracks? I don't have time to listen to their back catalogue.
 
  • #19
pinball1970 said:
The evidence. lets look at point one. How good was he? The opening is pretty insane, this is 1971. The break at 1.03 is aggressive as hell but he puts this lovely little triplet in the middle on his snare. I only spotted it when I slowed it down to half speed. (I did that by moving the stylus speed between 33 and 44 rpm on my girlfriends record player. Once discovered I started doing it with Buddy Rich to work out his tricks until one day, she came home put a record on and the damn thing stuck. It would only play 16 rpm or so. Man I paid for that one!)


That is pretty cool. A unique style. I never would have found this one. There's John Lord's nutty solo too.
 
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  • #20
Karen won the Playboy poll? Wow.
pinball1970 said:
Ian Paice - he would have been about 23 here.


Reminds me of Buddy Rich. (One of my aunts looks a lot like him. I made sure never to mention this.) Well I learned something here.
 
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  • #21
pinball1970 said:
A drum solo? Or one or two definitive tracks? I don't have time to listen to their back catalogue.
How about this.



Strong and solid and supportive, no empty flash, the power of simplicity, but I don't get what's special.

I used to hang out online with professional recording engineers. Hundreds of them. They had stories about "when I did the mix for Michael Jackson's Billy Jean" and stuff like that. They were completely stuck in the past. Everything new was of no interest. I gave this cover a try. They said Gretchen was pretty good but of course didn't hold a candle with the original. Good grief. After that I gave up. It was just impossible.

That Rolling Stone list is pretty good. All sorts of guys I'd never heard of, thusly destroying their "underrated" status. So how about the best drummer to not make the list? I'd go with Clive Bunker late of Jethro Tull. Great tone. And Glenn Cornick would have a real shot at underrated ebassist. Tull though didn't get really popular until these guys were replaced by a power-of-simplicity rhythm section. C'est la rock and roll vis.

 
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  • #22
I love Moon's stuff. I'm a guy who likes a lot of randomness in his life. I did once encounter some isolated Moon drums. In the absence of the rest of the band it sounded like a high school kid messing around in the garage. I think he focused on supporting the vocal, that's the secret of playing so wildly without just producing clutter. Jaco Pastorius, same. He dug Frank Sinatra and wanted to be a singer. I have suffered the misfortune of witnessing one of Jaco's attempts at vocalization.

That reminds me. Here's one of my fave examples of playing very freely while still solidly supporting the singer. Don Alias on drums. He didn't make the Rolling Stone list. I've heard zero praise for him but damn this is good.



It must be said that going to this style cost Joni many fans. She didn't care. She had it made already, so she did what she had wanted all along to do and never turned back. Artists....
 
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  • #23
I don't see this converging. You want someone famous, but not too famous.

My vote is for Hal Blaine. Played on 40 #1 songs. As for "not too famous", Bruce Gary (the Knack) was disappointed to find that his 10 favorite drummers were all Hal Blaine.
 
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  • #24
PS Karen Carpenter did not play drums on her recordings. It was...Hal Blaine.
 
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  • #25
Vanadium 50 said:
I don't see this converging. You want someone famous, but not too famous.
How about this.
$$ \frac {RecordSales} {(praise +1)} = Underratedness $$
The +1 is to get a defined result in the case of zero praise.

Dammit, they say there's a preview button but if so it's invisible to me. So much for the Latex Guide. Any help out there?

My vote is for Hal Blaine. Played on 40 #1 songs. As for "not too famous", Bruce Gary (the Knack) was disappointed to find that his 10 favorite drummers were all Hal Blaine.

May I be so bold as to ask what's your fave Blaine, the one that will make me a fan too?
 
  • #26
Frabjous said:
Under that formula, a drum machine with a praise of 0 is probably the most underrated drummer.
Oops. Let's try this.

$$ MusicalAbility * \frac {RecordSales} {(praise +1)} = Underratedness $$
I heard Tony Williams say he liked the drummer for Mister Mister. Someone told him it was a drum machine. He was cool with that.
 
  • #27
Karen Carpenter is really good jazz drummer.



She said drumming her real interest, that she didn't care about singing and never practiced. And people say there is no such thing as talent.

But as winner of the Playboy poll (!) clearly not underrated.

Light My Fire was the first song Robbie Krieger ever wrote. And people still say there is no such thing as talent.

I note that the Wurlitzer electric piano is a leading candidate for the My Least Favorite Instrument award. That or the Minimoog.
 
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  • #28
I'll start with the six consecutive Grammy "Records of the Year" he played on.

  • Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass "A Taste of Honey"
  • Frank Sinatra "Strangers in the Night"
  • The 5th Dimension "Up, Up and Away"
  • Simon & Garfunkel "Mrs. Robinson"
  • The 5th Dimension "Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In"
  • Simon & Garfunkel in "Bridge over Troubled Water"

And toss in the Beach Boys "Wouldn't It Be Nice" . (Bass, Carol Kaye)

You can look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_song_recordings_featuring_Hal_Blaine but it is incomplete. A complete list would have 35000 entries.
 
  • #29
Vanadium 50 said:
I'll start with the six consecutive Grammy "Records of the Year" he played on.

  • Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass "A Taste of Honey"
  • Frank Sinatra "Strangers in the Night"
  • The 5th Dimension "Up, Up and Away"
  • Simon & Garfunkel "Mrs. Robinson"
  • The 5th Dimension "Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In"
  • Simon & Garfunkel in "Bridge over Troubled Water"

And toss in the Beach Boys "Wouldn't It Be Nice" . (Bass, Carol Kaye)

You can look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_song_recordings_featuring_Hal_Blaine but it is incomplete. A complete list would have 35000 entries.
So I gave A Taste of Honey a shot. You are right. Very tasteful, subtle, and groovy drumming. Just the sort of thing to make a man underrated.

Huge exposure.

Let's see, is Hal Blaine on the Rolling Stone list of 100 drummers? Uh oh. Number five. Praise not small. Well, I guess it depends on whether you want to depend on expert praise (very high) or ordinary fan praise (near zero) of Hal Blaine's drumming. And that is a matter of taste.

Now I'm even more impressed with that drummer list. Whoever came up with that knew the inside story.

I had no respect for such lists. I remember the first one. It was electric guitarists. What a joke. It was just a reflection of Jann Wenner's personal ignorant taste. Well if he wanted to do that with his magazine that was his right, but I was not going to pay any attention to his tripes. So now (thirty years later?) RS has taken its status as an arbitrator of taste seriously and cleaned up its act to become a useful resource. Hats off to them.

How about this:
$$ MusicalAbility * \frac {RecordSales} {(ExpertPraise*FanPraise +1)} = Underratedness $$
Hal Blaine has so little Fan Praise he ought to do pretty well with this.
 
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  • #30
Frabjous said:
Under that formula, a drum machine with a praise of 0 is probably the most underrated drummer.
I would say the drum machine is undefined.
 
  • #31
Yes the wrecking crew were legend and part of musical history but was Hal Baine a great drummer? Technically?
He was a great musician sure, played on some my favourite songs of all time but then again so did Ringo, Ola Brunkert, Robert Siebenberg and Nigel Olsson.
 
  • #32
Hornbein said:
How about this.



Strong and solid and supportive, no empty flash, the power of simplicity, but I don't get what's special.

I used to hang out online with professional recording engineers. Hundreds of them. They had stories about "when I did the mix for Michael Jackson's Billy Jean" and stuff like that. They were completely stuck in the past. Everything new was of no interest. I gave this cover a try. They said Gretchen was pretty good but of course didn't hold a candle with the original. Good grief. After that I gave up. It was just impossible.

That Rolling Stone list is pretty good. All sorts of guys I'd never heard of, thusly destroying their "underrated" status. So how about the best drummer to not make the list? I'd go with Clive Bunker late of Jethro Tull. Great tone. And Glenn Cornick would have a real shot at underrated ebassist. Tull though didn't get really popular until these guys were replaced by a power-of-simplicity rhythm section. C'est la rock and roll vis.


Forget the drums, Gretchen Wilson! Wow! what an amazing voice!? Ann Wilson's vocals on those early Heart albums are something else but that lady gave a great rendition. Brilliant.

The Tull track reminded me of of Manic Depression by Hendrix. Clive Bunker and Mitch Mitchell were great drummers. I think they would get a decent underrated score.

 
  • #33
Best drummer not on the Top 100 list? So we're looking for the 101st best drummer now?
 
  • #34
Vanadium 50 said:
Best drummer not on the Top 100 list? So we're looking for the 101st best drummer now?
The lists I posted were a reference to how low Ian Paice seem to place compared to technically inferior drummers like Ringo, Keith Moon, Charlie Watts and Ginger Baker.
EDIT: Ok I just read Hornbein's comment about not making the list. Low placing or not making the list would illustrate underratedness (that list anyway there must be lots of others)
Clive Bunker was a much better drummer than many of the high placing "famous" guys.
 
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  • #35
This is fun I admit it.
Drums, gosh.
Of all the threads I read on pf it is very very rare I come across a thread where I think, "I really know the nuts and bolts to this!"
 
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