MSW effect for Solar Neutrinos

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the MSW (Mikheyev-Smirnov-Wolfenstein) effect as it pertains to solar neutrinos, specifically focusing on the conversion of electron neutrinos and muon neutrinos in the Sun's core under varying density conditions. Participants explore the implications of different figures and mathematical formulations related to neutrino flavor composition and transitions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses understanding of the top figure, indicating that electron neutrinos are produced mainly in the ##\nu_{1m}## state, but later acknowledges confusion regarding the initial neutrino composition in other figures.
  • Another participant corrects the first, stating that the top figure actually shows electron neutrinos produced mainly in the ##\nu_{2m}## state, and discusses the adiabatic evolution of neutrinos exiting the Sun.
  • There is a discussion about the initial matter angle's dependence on the relationship between neutrino energy and matter density, with implications for the composition of electron neutrinos at resonance.
  • A participant shares a preference for a different figure from a paper for understanding flavor composition, citing the solar resonance around ##VE \simeq 10^{-5}\ \rm{eV}^2##.
  • Mathematical formulations are presented to derive the initial electron-neutrino composition, with discussions on the implications of varying electron density relative to resonance density.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the signs in the equations presented, with one participant suggesting the removal of a minus sign from a specific angle.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit some agreement on the mathematical formulations and the implications of the figures, but there remains disagreement regarding the interpretation of the figures and the initial neutrino composition. The discussion does not reach a consensus on these interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the initial neutrino composition and the implications of different density conditions, highlighting the complexity of the MSW effect and its dependence on various parameters.

ChrisVer
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Can someone help me understand the following figure?

It shows how the conversion of neutrons (electron neutrinos=red, muon neutrinos=blue) is happening through the Sun for different cases of the core's density (relative to the resonance density).

I only understood the top figure, which tells me that I get an electron neutrino produced that is mainly in the ##\nu_{1m}## state, and because of matter effects, when it reaches the resonance (##\Delta m_m =min##) we get each ##\nu_{im}## being 50-50 of neutrinos. Then the ##n## keeps dropping and so the muonic component of ##\nu_{1m}## gets larger until ##\nu_{1m} \rightarrow \nu_1## (vacuum) with the small mixing angle (here zero/no oscillations only matter effects).

However in the rest diagrams, I don't understand why the initial neutrino composition is such.
 

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ChrisVer said:
I only understood the top figure, which tells me that I get an electron neutrino produced that is mainly in the ν1m\nu_{1m} state

This is not what the top figure shows, it show the electron neutrino produced mainly in the ##\nu_{2m}## state. As the neutrino evolves adiabatically, when the state exits the Sun, it is essentially in the ##\nu_2## state, which only has a subdominant component of electron neutrino (##\theta_{12} \simeq 33^\circ##).

ChrisVer said:
However in the rest diagrams, I don't understand why the initial neutrino composition is such.

The initial matter angle depends on the relation between the neutrino energy and the matter (electron) density. If the energy is on-resonance, the electron neutrino would be 50-50 ##\nu_{1m}## and ##\nu_{2m}##. Anywhere above resonance, it is mainly ##\nu_{2m}## and below resonance it goes towards the vacuum composition.
 
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Orodruin said:
This is not what the top figure shows, it show the electron neutrino produced mainly in the ν2m

Sorry "##\nu_{1m}##" was a typo of mind (it doesn't correspond to the figure) and I meant ##\nu_{2m}##.
 
Also, I generally prefer figure 2 of this paper for understanding the flavour composition dependence on the matter potential, but admittedly I am biased for obvious reasons. The solar resonance is that which appears around ##VE \simeq 10^{-5}\ \rm{eV}^2##.
 
I'm trying to see those transitions from formulae...
You get the initial electron-neutrino composition from:
|\nu_e> = \cos (\theta_m) | \nu_{1m}> + \sin (\theta_m) |\nu_{2m}>
With
\sin (2\theta_m) = \frac{\sin (2\theta)}{C}
and
C= \sqrt{[A_{CC}-\cos(2\theta)]^2+ \sin^2(2\theta)}
A= \frac{2 \sqrt{2}G_F n_e E}{\Delta m^2}?

So for n_e =n_R you get \sin^2 2 \theta_m =1 \Rightarrow \theta_m = \pm \frac{\pi}{4} and so the \nu_e \approx \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}[|\nu_{1m}>+ | \nu_{2m}>]?

Then for n_e \gg n_R the C\approx A_{CC} \gg 1 and so \sin 2 \theta_m \approx 0 \Rightarrow \theta_m \approx 0,\frac{\pi}{2} and for 0: |\nu_e> \approx |\nu_{1m}> while for ##\pi/2## |\nu_e> \approx |\nu_{2m}>? *that's reversed*

By continuity then, the inbetween values will have a dominant \nu_{2m}...the opposite holds for n_e <n_R until it reaches the \theta_m= \theta \approx 33^o.
 
Last edited:
You can remove the minus sign from the ##\theta_m = \pm \pi/4##, otherwise yes.
 
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OK I think I got it, thanks :biggrin:
 

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