Multiplication in projective space

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of multiplication in projective space, specifically focusing on the validity and implications of defining multiplication through entrywise multiplication of elements in the context of projective geometry. Participants explore whether this operation can be considered well-defined and if it forms a group structure.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes defining multiplication in projective space through entrywise multiplication of elements, questioning its well-defined nature and group structure.
  • Another participant argues against the utility of entrywise multiplication, suggesting that it is not commonly used and referring to isomorphisms in higher dimensions instead.
  • A different participant confirms that while the multiplication is well-defined, it does not create a group due to the non-invertibility of elements with an entry of zero.
  • One participant expresses interest in the coordinatewise multiplication for its simplicity and potential geometric meaning, despite acknowledging its perceived lack of utility.
  • Another participant mentions a geometric interpretation related to angles and tangents, suggesting a connection to the projective plane.
  • A later post shares a personal success in defining a noncommutative and nonassociative addition that is distributive over the proposed multiplication, although the implications of this addition are still to be explored.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the utility and implications of entrywise multiplication in projective space. There is no consensus on whether this operation should be considered a valid group operation, as some participants affirm its well-defined nature while others challenge its usefulness.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention limitations regarding the invertibility of elements and the noncommutative nature of the proposed addition, indicating that further exploration is needed to understand the implications of these definitions.

Structure seeker
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TL;DR
Suppose I have a projective space with sone dimension over a field. Can I multiply entrywise if the point 0 is added to the projective space?
Let #F# be a field and consider the projective space of dimension #n# over it with added the point #0#. It seems to me that there is a valid definition of multiplication by just entrywise multiplicating the elements. Of course both can be multiplied by #x \in F# but that goes for the product as well!

My question is whether the multiplication is well defined, and whether it is usual to consider this space a 'group' under that multiplication.
 
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It's well defined, but this does not define a group. Any element with an entry of 0 is not invertible.
 
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fresh_42 said:
What for?
Just a pet project. I'm interested in the coordinatewise multiplication simply because it's the easiest one to analyze. It's nice to get this information, because as you say it's regarded as a useless operation (and not a group operation) which is why I couldn't find my answer with google.
 
Structure seeker said:
Just a pet project. I'm interested in the coordinatewise multiplication simply because it's the easiest one to analyze. It's nice to get this information, because as you say it's regarded as a useless operation (and not a group operation) which is why I couldn't find my answer with google.
Maybe you can find a geometric meaning. Geometry is where projective originally came from. My first thought was the formula ##e^{i \varphi }\cdot e^{i \psi }=e^{i(\varphi +\psi)}## in one dimension, aka the projective plane. But that led to the isomorphisms I linked to: multiplication in orthogonal groups.
 
Why projective space?
 
Any projective space with an amount of entries divisible by 3 is OK, but indeed projective planes are of first interest. As to the geometric meaning, it kinda looks like it adds the two tangents of twice the angle with identity (the all one element) and applying the inverse tangent of the result to get half the angle of the newfound product.
 
Happy to say my pet project succeeded! In the end I used the nonzero field elements and an added zero point in the projective plane. I also define a strange 'addition' over which this multiplication is distributive. It's been fun :cool:

I'm not gonna give the results here. The 'addition' is noncommutative and nonassociative, I'll need to see first what the implications are. Just wanted to tell it succeeded.
 

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