Must the 1st derivative of phi be undetermined at V=infinity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of derivatives of a function, specifically in the context of potential theory and boundary conditions at infinity. Participants explore whether the first derivative of a function must be undetermined at the boundary where the potential is infinite, examining the implications of discontinuities in second derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that a discontinuous second derivative does not necessarily imply a discontinuous first derivative, citing examples like the function ##y=|x|##.
  • Others contend that a discontinuity in the second derivative, particularly in relation to the potential, indicates a discontinuity of the first derivative, suggesting that the first derivative will be discontinuous at certain boundaries.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of continuity and derivatives, with some participants noting that a continuous function cannot have an infinite derivative, raising questions about the conditions under which this holds true.
  • One participant introduces the function ##f(x)=x^{1/3}## as an example of a continuous function with an infinite first derivative at a specific point, prompting further inquiry into the conditions for the earlier claims.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of discontinuities in derivatives, with no consensus reached on whether the first derivative must be undetermined at the boundary where the potential is infinite.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the relationship between continuity and differentiability, noting that certain assumptions may be necessary for their claims. The discussion remains open regarding the specific conditions under which these mathematical properties apply.

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Screen Shot 2015-12-07 at 10.26.48 pm.png


I think it is not true that a discontinuous ##\nabla^2\psi## implies a discontinuous ##\nabla\psi##, because a continuous function can have a discontinuous derivative, eg. ##y=|x|##.

Is it true that ##\nabla\psi## must always be undetermined at the boundary where ##V=\infty##?

Attached below is the whole paragraph that the sentence appears in:
Screen Shot 2015-12-07 at 10.27.02 pm.png
 
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Happiness said:
I think it is not true that a discontinuous ##\nabla^2\phi## implies a discontinuous ##\nabla\phi##, because a continuous function can have a discontinuous derivative, eg. ##y=|x|##.
That's not what it says. It says that the discontinuity of ##\nabla^2\psi## is the same as that of the potential, hence is a discontinuity of the second kind (infinite jump). Therefore the first derivative will be discontinuous.
 
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While it is true that a discontinuous second derivative does not imply a discontinuous first derivative, it is true that a continuous function can not have an infinite derivative.
 
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RUber said:
While it is true that a discontinuous second derivative does not imply a discontinuous first derivative, it is true that a continuous function can not have an infinite derivative.
Is there an implicit condition for this to be true?
Take ##f(x)=x^{1/3}##. This function is continuous, but the first derivative in x=0 is infinite.
 
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Thanks, Samy...I spoke too soon.
 

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