Name the Baby Elephant: Vote Now at CERN

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Discussion Overview

The thread discusses the naming of a hypothetical "baby elephant" related to CERN's research, incorporating various theoretical concepts from physics. Participants propose names and engage in discussions about recent events at CERN, including an explosion linked to engineering errors, while also exploring speculative theories and models in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes the name "S-MODEL" for the baby elephant, linking it to various concepts in theoretical physics, including string theories and the Standard Model.
  • Another participant suggests "Elephant Theory" as an alternative name, questioning the adequacy of "S-theory."
  • Concerns are raised about a recent explosion at CERN, attributed to a mathematical error in the design of superconductive magnets, with some participants discussing the implications of this incident.
  • Participants mention Fermilab's role in the engineering of the magnets and highlight potential design flaws that may have contributed to the explosion.
  • Speculative connections are made between various theoretical constructs, such as M-theory and the naming of particles, with references to mathematical identities and their implications.
  • Some participants express skepticism about certain theories, describing them as "weird" or "cranky," while others remain open to exploring these ideas further.
  • A participant shares a link to a paper discussing physics beyond the Standard Model and dark matter, suggesting a broader context for the discussion.
  • There are mentions of a need for reorganization in nomenclature related to the proposed models and theories.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of opinions on the naming of the baby elephant, with no consensus reached on a single name. Additionally, there is disagreement regarding the implications of the recent explosion at CERN and the adequacy of various theoretical frameworks discussed.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to specific incidents and theories without resolving the underlying technical details or assumptions. The implications of the explosion and its causes remain a point of contention, and the relationship between proposed names and theoretical concepts is not fully clarified.

jal
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After CERN has finished analyzing the data we will end up with the birth of a baby elephant.
We need to give it a name.
Here is my entry (a S-imple compromise)
This baby will be
A S-imple S-symmetrically S-tructured S-pacetime
which has a Quantum Minimum length S-tructure which has been identified by
“S-POT” S-tring theories, by S-particles, by S-pin networks, S-queeze, S-hot noise, and
by S-ides of tetras in quantum geometry.
It incorporates S-pheres, S-pherical harmonics, S-ymmetry groups, S-calar fields, S-USY, S-upersymmetry,
S-chroedinger equation, S-chwarzschild radius, S-pace and the S-tandard Model [SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1)].

I propose the S-MODEL
because S-he will be a real S-hape-S-hifter.

The most popular proposal will win.
This is a democratic voting system.
The number of hits on this thread will determine the number of votes for the proposed name.

Comments and suggestions will be incorporated into the proposed name.
Everyone will win.
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Physics news on Phys.org
Did you hear about the big explosion at CERN?
Americans must improuve calculation: they were wrong in some calculation about magnets inside LHC, so they explosed few days ago... LHC will be in late of a lot of months more!

Bad Math Causes Explosion at CERN Collider
"The Large Hadron Collider at the CERN has suffered a big explosion deep inside that has caused a leak of hellium gas and the quick evacuation of everyone working there. The reason: a mathematical mistake that affected the design of the giant superconductive magnets made by Fermilab. Now the company will have to repair and upgrade the 24 magnets that are installed on the 27 km. circunference of one of the most important research centers on Earth."
 
Hi francesca!
I reported it in a thread ... as an opportunity for everyone to polish up their theory.
jal
 
We need a consortium to act as the midwife.
hint... contact CERN ... see if they are interested.
They could even offer a prize.
I'd like to get some autographed pictures.:smile:
jal
 
francesca said:
Did you hear about the big explosion at CERN?
Americans must improuve calculation: they were wrong in some calculation about magnets inside LHC, so they explosed few days ago... LHC will be in late of a lot of months more!

Why the reference to Americans improving calculation? There was nothing said about Americans in the part you posted.
 
Fermilab was responsible for the engineering (support and containment of the magnets)
Fermilab has some pressrelease stuff posted about the failure. There apparently was an obvious structural design flaw that went unnoticed.
A mechanical engineering error that simply should not have passed inspection.
An early statement from Fermilab:
http://www.fnal.gov/pub/today/20070329_page01.html
Updates:
http://www.fnal.gov/pub/today/20070403_page01.html
http://www.fnal.gov/pub/today/archive_2007/today07-04-03.html
 
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They failed to consider asymmetric loading. It like a design concept oversight. Apparently the equipment was built to specifications, but the specifications did not adequately consider the application.
 
jal said:
I propose the S-MODEL
because S-he will be a real S-hape-S-hifter.


It appears http://physics.usc.edu/~bars/" .
 
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jal said:
After CERN has finished analyzing the data we will end up with the birth of a baby elephant.

Yes, CERN are a natural choice to manage this. But as kneemo says, S-theory doesn't quite cut it. Why not call it Elephant Theory?

:smile:
 
  • #10
kneemo said:
It appears http://physics.usc.edu/~bars/" .
Don't be so pessemistic. He would be the biggest supporter with his S-theory.
He is also waiting for CERN data. However, I suspect that he would like to see the landscape covered with particles.

Kea
...Elephant Theory? Do you think anyone would notice as they walk by?:smile:

jal
 
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  • #11
kneemo said:
It appears http://physics.usc.edu/~bars/" .

The standard motivation for M-theory is the identity

528 = 11 + 66 + 462,

where 528 = 32*(32+1)/2, 55 = 11 choose 2, and 462 = 11 choose 5. The 2 and 5 here is the reason for 2-branes and 5-branes. However, we alternatively have the identity

528 = 66 + 924/2,

where 66 = 12 choose 2 and 924 = 12 choose 6. The first term gives 2 times (2-time theory) and the second 6-branes.
 
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  • #12
That is too weird to be dismissed as a coincidence, TL. It sounds cranky to me but, but, no errors are apparent. I will probably have disturbing dreams about this - think of it as perturbative dreaming . . .
 
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  • #13
Staying closer to reality

http://www.arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0704/0704.2276v1.pdf
Title: Physics Beyond the Standard Model and Dark Matter
Authors: Hitoshi Murayama
Comments: Lectures at Les Houches Summer School, Session 86, Particle Physics and Cosmology: the Fabric of Spacetime, July 31- August 25, 2006
18 April 2007

Hitoshi Murayama has proposed naming all the particles after somebody's uncle.:smile:
 
  • #14
Marcus... you asked me what kind of info can be obtained from doing a search with google image... Here is what I got from CDT ... an elephant!
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~xren/research/cdtgraph/
A Scale-Invariant Image Representation: the CDT Graph
jal:smile: :smile:
 
  • #15
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/0705.0431
Title: Phenomenology of the nMSSM from colliders to cosmology
Authors: C. Balazs, M. Carena, A. Freitas, C.E.M. Wagner
(Submitted on 3 May 2007)
The Next-to-Minimal Supersymmetric Standard Model (NMSSM)
Note: The minimum length structure is showing up. (I like 24)
At the end of the day, it’s going to fit into and be part of a structured spacetime at 10^-16 to 10^-18.
He is giving standard names (spaticles) to the “plaquettes” and the configurations of a structured model. Everything has got to be put together into a model from which dynamics can be simulated.
There will be a baby elephant.
There will need to be a reorganization of the nominclatures.
jal