Natural Eigenbasis composite 2 X Spin 1/2 system

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the construction and understanding of the natural eigenbasis for a composite spin-1/2 system, particularly focusing on the spin states and their properties. Participants explore the relationships between different spin states, the orthogonality of states, and the application of the Clebsch-Gordan decomposition in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the representation of spin states in terms of total angular momentum eigenstates and questions how to compute specific combinations of states to achieve a composite spin-0 state.
  • Another participant suggests that the new basis should be derived by ensuring it consists of eigenstates of total angular momentum and proposes verifying this through calculations of eigenvalues.
  • A different participant emphasizes the importance of orthogonality in the context of spin states, noting that the spin-zero state should be orthogonal to the spin-one states.
  • One participant reflects on the presentation of the topic in a textbook, suggesting that it implies a "nice consequence" rather than a necessary condition for the states.
  • Another participant discusses the implications of the Clebsch-Gordan decomposition and expresses skepticism about the use of expectation values in proving certain relationships between angular momentum operators.
  • One participant asserts that all non-degenerate eigenvectors are orthogonal, reinforcing the concept of orthogonality in quantum states.
  • A participant challenges the approach taken by their lecturer regarding the expectation value of angular momentum operators, preferring a more straightforward method outlined in a different textbook.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and implications of orthogonality, the use of expectation values, and the methods for deriving relationships between spin states. The discussion does not reach a consensus on these points, indicating multiple competing views remain.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various textbooks and methods, highlighting potential limitations in their understanding or the presentation of concepts. There are unresolved mathematical steps and differing interpretations of the formalism used in quantum mechanics.

cathalcummins
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The way I am being taught in my course is that instead of


!s_1= 1/2, m_1 =1/2 ; s_2= 1/2, m_2 =1/2 > = !+ + >
!s_1= 1/2, m_1 =1/2 ; s_2= 1/2, m_2 =-1/2 > = !+ - >
!s_1= 1/2, m_1 =-1/2 ; s_2= 1/2, m_2 =1/2 > = !- + >
!s_1= 1/2, m_1 =-1/2 ; s_2= 1/2, m_2 =-1/2 > = !- - >

We have


¦s=1,m_z=1>= ¦++>
¦s=1,m_z=0>= 1/sqrt(2) (¦+->+¦-+>)
¦s=1,m_z=-1>= ¦++>

¦s=0,m_z=0>= 1/sqrt(2) (¦+->-¦-+>)

I understand the spin-1 triplet. My question is "how do you compute ¦+->-¦-+> to get composite s=0,m=0". Is it essentially

1/sqrt(2) (¦1 0> - ¦1 0> )= ¦0 0>


?

Thanks.
 
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The idea is that you derive this new basis by requiring that it be eigenstates of total angular momentum. However, if you are just given the states, you should still be able to show that it is an eigenstate.

For example, show that the state is an eigenstate of [tex]S_1^z + S_2^z[/tex] and also [tex]S_1^2 + S_2^2[/tex], and what are the eigenvalues?
 
The spin zero state is chosen to be orthogonal to the spin one state.
 
Looks like I misunderstood the question. Orthogonality is usually the way to go but you can do the Clebsch-Gordan decomposition more systematically I believe.
 
Of course! orthogonality, thank you Pam. When reading David J Griffiths Introduction to quantum mechanics - (Prentice Hall, 1995) p166, the way it is presented almost seems to insinuate a "nice consequence" as opposed to a necessary condition.

[tex] \left( S_{1z} \otimes \mathbb{I} + \mathbb{I} \otimes S_{2z} \right)\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\{ \ket{\uparrow\downarrow}-\ket{\downarrow\uparrow}\}=\frac{\hbar}{2\sqrt{2}} \left( \ket{\uparrow\downarrow}+\ket{\downarrow\uparrow}-\ket{\uparrow\downarrow}-\ket{\downarrow\uparrow} \right)[/tex]

So that

[tex] \left( S_{1z} \otimes \mathbb{I} + \mathbb{I} \otimes S_{2z} \right)\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\{ \ket{\uparrow\downarrow}-\ket{\downarrow\uparrow}\}=\left(0 \right)\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} \left( \ket{\uparrow\downarrow}-\ket{\downarrow\uparrow}\right)[/tex]

Meaning that

[tex] \{ \ket{\uparrow\downarrow}-\ket{\downarrow\uparrow}\}[/tex]

is an eigenvector of the [tex]S_z=\left{ S_{1z} \otimes \mathbb{I} + \mathbb{I} \otimes S_{2z}\right}[/tex] operator with corresponding eigenvalue [tex]0[/tex]. Similarly, but with more algebra, we should arrive with the corresponding eigenvalue [tex]s(s+1)\hbar^2=0(0+1)\hbar^2=0[/tex] for the [tex]S^2[/tex] operator.

Technically, the zero spin state is orthogonal to every other eigenvector yes?
 
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All non-degenerate evectors are orthogonal.
 
To motivate the Clebsch-Gordon, and prove [tex]m=m_1+m_2[/tex] my lecturer done the obvious exploitation of the fact:

[tex] J_z=J_{1z}+J_{2z}[/tex]

so that the expectation value of [tex]J_z-J_{1z}-J_{2z}[/tex] is zero. That makes sense to a certain extent. Though, and here is the problem: the operators above do not posess simultaneous eigenkets. But, regardless, he goes on to calculate it wrt two separate eigenbases; [tex]| \phi \rangle[/tex] and [tex]| \psi \rangle[/tex] where

[tex] | \phi \rangle = | j_1 j_2 m_1 m_2\rangle[/tex]

and

[tex] | \psi \rangle = | j_1 j_2 j m \rangle[/tex]

This formalism is that of Modern Quantum Mechanics - J.J Sakurai (Addison-Wesley Rev .ed, 1994). The Expectation value is found by (according to my lecturers notes)

[tex] \langle \phi | J_z-J_{1z}-J_{2z} | \psi \rangle[/tex]

which must return zero. Okay I'm going to stop there because I simply don't agree that this is the expectation value.

You can still prove [tex]m=m_1+m_2[/tex] by the elementary steps outlined in Modern Quantum Mechanics - J.J Sakurai (Addison-Wesley Rev .ed, 1994) p 208 . This way makes sense to me and it mentions nothing of expectation value. Sorry to post such a trivial question but I'm just trying to weed out any mistakes in my lecturers notes.
 
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