- #1
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Discussion Overview
The discussion centers around the discovery of a potentially new type of bacteria in subglacial Lake Vostok, Antarctica, as reported by Russian scientists. Participants explore the implications of this finding, the methods used for identification, and the subsequent claims of contamination that challenge the validity of the initial reports.
Discussion Character
- Exploratory
- Debate/contested
- Technical explanation
Main Points Raised
- Some participants express skepticism about the initial reports of a new bacterium, questioning the clarity and rigor of the methods used for genetic identification.
- Concerns are raised regarding the possibility that the reported bacteria may actually be contaminants introduced during the research process.
- One participant notes that if the bacteria were contaminants, it raises questions about how they were initially thought to be a previously unknown life form.
- There is discussion about the methods of genetic distance measurement, with references to whole genome sequencing versus 16s rDNA sequencing, and the reliability of the databases used for comparison.
- Some participants suggest that the discovery could represent a new evolutionary branch of bacteria with minimal gene transfer with other known bacteria.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants generally do not reach a consensus, as there are competing views regarding the legitimacy of the initial discovery and the implications of contamination. The discussion remains unresolved with ongoing skepticism about the findings.
Contextual Notes
Limitations include a lack of clarity on the methodologies used for genetic analysis and the potential impact of contamination on the findings. The discussion highlights the challenges in validating claims of new life forms in pristine environments.
- #2
Monique
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
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New organisms are discovered every day.. would this be an ancient bacterium of some sort or did they mention they couldn't identify descendants? The article isn't very clear.
- #3
dimensionless
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Well, it would a whole new evolutionary branch of bacteria that likely has little to no gene transfer with the rest of the earth.
- #4
Curious3141
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In Capitalist Russia, you find bacteria.
In Soviet Russia, bacteria find you.
Anyway, it's a false alarm. http://phys.org/news/2013-03-russia-life-antarctic-lake.html
The only scientifically accurate thing we can say about this whole escapade is that now there's a great likelihood these scientists have queered the pitch for others by contaminating a once "pristine" environment.
A slight (albeit relevant) digression: the level of confidence with which one can state that no life (not even spores) exist on an object is called a "Sterility Assurance Level". You might think that the highest SALs would be found in surgical applications - like neurosurgical operating theatres, where even a small risk of infection can prove disastrous. But you would be wrong. The highest artificially achievable SALs are found in outer-space unmanned expeditionary equipment, e.g. the probes used to test for the presence of extraterrestrial life on Mars. This is to provide a great deal of assurance that whatever is found on such an expedition is legitimate.
Considering that, an admission of contamination of this sort of Antarctic environment not only negates their own findings, it also makes follow-up work next to impossible.
In Soviet Russia, bacteria find you.
Anyway, it's a false alarm. http://phys.org/news/2013-03-russia-life-antarctic-lake.html
The only scientifically accurate thing we can say about this whole escapade is that now there's a great likelihood these scientists have queered the pitch for others by contaminating a once "pristine" environment.
A slight (albeit relevant) digression: the level of confidence with which one can state that no life (not even spores) exist on an object is called a "Sterility Assurance Level". You might think that the highest SALs would be found in surgical applications - like neurosurgical operating theatres, where even a small risk of infection can prove disastrous. But you would be wrong. The highest artificially achievable SALs are found in outer-space unmanned expeditionary equipment, e.g. the probes used to test for the presence of extraterrestrial life on Mars. This is to provide a great deal of assurance that whatever is found on such an expedition is legitimate.
Considering that, an admission of contamination of this sort of Antarctic environment not only negates their own findings, it also makes follow-up work next to impossible.
- #5
Monique
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
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If it were contaminants, how could they have thought it was a previously unknown life form?
- #6
Curious3141
Homework Helper
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Monique said:
Beats me. But I had a great deal of skepticism about the initial reports anyway. There was simply not enough detail for a scientifically informed observer (like a microbiologist - and I'm one) to make a judgement of the validity of the claim. For instance, it was not at all clear what method/metric they were using to judge genetic distance - whole genome sequencing? Or something more limited like 16s rDNA sequencing? Because the latter method, while widespread and very easy to do, is quite imperfect even more many known and well-characterised genera. And what database were they using - BLAST or something else? What search criteria?
After Pons and Fleischmann, you'd think the popular science press would be more cautious and circumspect, but you'd be wrong.
- #7
QInstrument
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Curious3141 said:
Well this is what the russians said, don't know about the legitimacy
And the last two lines don't necessarily mean anything