New Meat-Free Hamburger: White Castle & Burger King Offer Plant-Based Option

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the introduction of plant-based hamburger options by White Castle and Burger King, including the use of heme derived from beet roots to mimic the taste of real meat. Participants share their experiences, preferences, and thoughts on meat substitutes, vegetarianism, and the implications of consuming these products.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express excitement about trying the new plant-based burgers and discuss their taste similarities to real meat.
  • Others mention various brands of plant-based burgers, such as "Impossible Burgers," "Beyond Burgers," and "Incredible Burgers," highlighting their growing availability and popularity.
  • There is a discussion on the motivations behind vegetarians seeking meat-like flavors in their food, with some questioning the rationale while others suggest it helps ease the transition away from meat.
  • Concerns about the health effects of red meat consumption are raised, alongside the environmental and ethical considerations of meat production.
  • Participants share personal anecdotes about their dietary choices and preferences, including the types of vegetarian burgers they enjoy.
  • Some comments reflect on the domestication of animals and the complexities surrounding animal welfare and farming practices.
  • There is mention of the business and scientific aspects of companies like Impossible Foods, including their funding and research focus.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views regarding the motivations for consuming plant-based meat alternatives, the ethics of animal domestication, and the implications of meat consumption on health and the environment. No consensus is reached on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying assumptions about vegetarianism, animal welfare, and the taste of meat substitutes, which may influence their perspectives. The discussion also touches on the reliability of information regarding animal farming practices.

  • #31
I believe A&W has a new "Beyond Meat" veggie burger.
Wife has tried it. She is not vegetarian, but she really liked it, and wants to go back for more.
 
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  • #32
Greg Bernhardt said:
My wife is a veggie so I eat the stuff all the time. "Beyond" makes a beet and pea burger and I swear to god it tastes like like a real beef burger. It's quite expensive, but wow, they are extremely close to mirroring the taste and texture.
"Beyond" is available at my local groceries -- probably supplied by the same distributors as the Bay Area for non-local stuff -- but since I read this thread I have not found "Impossible".

The quest for a vegan burger is not just "taste like meat". Burgers form a subset of sandwiches: two slices of fresh bread, possibly spread with tasty condiments, usually layered with thin slices of fresh (or pickled) vegetables such as lettuce, cucumbers, tomatoes but with some tasty protein core; i.e, the burger.

Meat and fish eaters have many choices; vegetarians not so many for this particular form. :smile:
 
  • #33
Klystron said:
The quest for a vegan burger is not just "taste like meat". Burgers form a subset of sandwiches: two slices of fresh bread, possibly spread with tasty condiments, usually layered with thin slices of fresh (or pickled) vegetables such as lettuce, cucumbers, tomatoes but with some tasty protein core; i.e, the burger.
Oh great, now I'm all hungry... o0)
 
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  • #34
I like vegetarian food, but I also love meat. Consequently I filled in a missing (implied) title element differently than the OP intended.

The OP meant an implied hyphen in the thread's title: "New Meat-Free Hamburger"

When this thread first appeared, I mentally filled in the missing title element with a comma or semicolon: "New Meat, Free Hamburger"

Very different meanings. :biggrin:

"Eats, Shoots and Leaves"
 
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  • #35
Here is a NY Times article that is a follow-up that looks at which restaurant chains are doing what WRT meat-free food. It also describes Arby's vegetable-free carrot (made from chicken breast, including pictures showing how it is made) as part of a meat-free backlash.
246758
 
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  • #36
Burger King's Impossible Whopper is to go on sale nationwide (US) for a limited time https://www.msn.com/en-us/foodanddrink/restaurantsandnews/burger-kings-plant-based-impossible-whopper-is-coming-to-restaurants-nationwide/ar-AAFaTQK?li=BBnbfcL
 
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  • #37
Update.
Here is a NY Times article on the meatless burger and related markets.
They review:
  • what companies are selling what, where
  • do meatless burgers reduce greenhouse gas emissions (they think so)
  • what about nutrition (more salt, a bit more fat and protein and a slightly fewer calories).
 
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  • #38
Very surprising to see scientifically minded people falling victim to this push for plant based fake food.
Eat some steak and thrive like a human should.
 
  • #39
MyoPhilosopher said:
Very surprising to see scientifically minded people falling victim to this push for plant based fake food.
Safe to assume you think the science around veggies is fake? Do tell.
 
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  • #40
DaveC426913 said:
Safe to assume you think the science around veggies is fake? Do tell.
Considering the fact that in any given diet, 99%+ of toxins are coming from plant foods and not from animal foods. Vegetables are not anything magical.
 
  • #41
MyoPhilosopher said:
Considering the fact that in any given diet, 99%+ of toxins are coming from plant foods and not from animal foods. Vegetables are not anything magical.

Source of this stat?
 
  • #42
gleem said:
Source of this stat?
Considering the facts that a plant's only form of defense is, quite literally, chemical warfare, does that actually surprise you? Imagine being a plant that is in constant danger of being eaten, the only form of defense it to make yourself toxic. Hence why we often see "organic" vegetables containing more toxins than regular vegetables. Even when we don't use pesticides, vegetables produce harmful chemicals to survive.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2217210Please read the above study.
 
  • #43
From the paper cited.

part of plant pesticide paper.png

An what make meat safer with the consumption and concentration of these chemicals in their flesh along with the steroids and antibiotics that are fed them as well as those substances created in the preparation (cooking) of meats as Heterocyclic amines and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons?
 

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  • #44
Wrt, to plants toxicity for survival. You need to recast your thinking as follows:

Plants evolve from generation to generation in an environment where animals are eating them. Their toxicity varies across the genome. However, toxic varieties are less likely to be eaten and so thrive better in that specific environment than the less toxic varieties until finally the less toxic ones perish and are no more.

Meantime, animals now needing to eat the more toxic varieties are evolving too. Those animals that can eat the toxic plants thrive over the animals that cannot and so once again evolutionary forces some to go extinct.

and a balance is reached until...

The key point is plants don't decide on their toxicity, it happens through random genome changes from generation to generation. Some thrive some do not.
 
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  • #45
Animals also adapt to conditions. Before preservation techniques then refrigeration became common, our ancestors enjoyed meat so putrid to send a gourmet screaming. Humans seem to be colonized by or develope a gut biome suitable to digesting local food sources.

Has not the small appendix been found to be a source for replacing beneficial bacteria after the host survives famine or disease?
 
  • #47
What will happen to the populations of cows, pigs, etc, "edible" animals once viable vegetarian or otherwise substitutes have been found and accepted? Won't their numbers blow up once they are not killed for consumption?
 
  • #48
Feral pigs are already a huge problem. Feral cows probably won't be as hardy, nor do cows breed prolifically like pigs
 
  • #49
WWGD said:
What will happen to the populations of cows, pigs, etc, "edible" animals once viable vegetarian or otherwise substitutes have been found and accepted? Won't their numbers blow up once they are not killed for consumption?
Guessing that most agricultural animals are bred for consumption. Without the market, the supply will dry up.
Most are probably not/will not become feral.
 
  • #50
Yeah, I think numbers will diminish as the market drops down to some lower level although I'm sure there will be a backlash or a "back to nature" kind of movement that can keep a portion of the farms still raising pigs and cows.
 
  • #51
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  • #52
gleem said:
From the paper cited.

View attachment 250973
An what make meat safer with the consumption and concentration of these chemicals in their flesh along with the steroids and antibiotics that are fed them as well as those substances created in the preparation (cooking) of meats as Heterocyclic amines and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons?

Ok let's deal with it issue by issue.
Steroids and hormones injected into animals: This would cause no difference in concentration of hormones in hormone free animal products. This means cows injected with estrogen output the same amount of hormones in their milk as cows raised without exogenous hormones.
Antibiotics: In the USA, no beef sold commerically has any antibiotics.
Yes, burning your steak is not a good idea.
 
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  • #53
Klystron said:
Animals also adapt to conditions. Before preservation techniques then refrigeration became common, our ancestors enjoyed meat so putrid to send a gourmet screaming. Humans seem to be colonized by or develope a gut biome suitable to digesting local food sources.

Has not the small appendix been found to be a source for replacing beneficial bacteria after the host survives famine or disease?
You are not making any specific claim here. Are you implying animals make natural pesticides we eat?
The matter of the fact is; 99.99% of all pesticides we ingest come from the plants themselves, and not the pesticides we spray.
 
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  • #54
Now, major meat and food companies (Tyson, Smithfield, Perdue, Hormel and Nestlé) are getting into making meat substitutes.
NY Times article here.
 
  • #55
NY Times article on a taste test of different fake meat burgers.

Order of finishing (best first):
Impossible Burger (4.5 out of 5)
Beyond Burger (4 out of 5)
Lightlife Burger (3 out of 5)
Uncut Burger (3 out of 5)
Field Burger (2.5 out of 5)
Sweet Earth Fresh Vegie Burger (2.5 out of 5)
 
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  • #56
BillTre said:
NY Times article on a taste test of different fake meat burgers.

Order of finishing (best first):
Impossible Burger (4.5 out of 5)
Beyond Burger (4 out of 5)
Lightlife Burger (3 out of 5)
Uncut Burger (3 out of 5)
Field Burger (2.5 out of 5)
Sweet Earth Fresh Vegie Burger (2.5 out of 5)
What, no Control Burger?
 
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  • #57
russ_watters said:
What, no Control Burger?
Or Hamilton Burger. Compared to Perry, he amounted to a vegetable.
 
  • #58
These new "burgers" are not a healthy as one might expect. check out the nutritional stats.

Beyond Burger

Four ounces delivers 250 calories, 18 total grams of fat, with 6 grams of saturated fat, 390 milligrams of sodium, only 2 grams of fiber, 20 grams of protein, and 25% of your recommended daily value for iron

Impossible Burger

One 4-ounce patty contains 240 calories, 14 grams of total fat, with 8 grams of saturated fat, 370 milligrams of sodium, 3 grams of fiber, and 19 grams of protein, plus 1 gram added sugar, and weirdly 5.3 milligrams of the B vitamin thiamine — 2,350% of your recommended daily value (a high intake is 50 milligrams a day) — and 130% of B12.

compare to a 4 oz Beef burger (10% fat),

260 calories, 14 grams total fat, 8 gms saturated, 70 mg sodium, 0 gms fiber, 31 gms protein, sugar0 gmsCost: Veggie burgers $11/lb, Beef $5-$8/lb.
 
  • #59
BillTre said:
They attribute it success at least in part to using heme (derived from beet roots) in it (red meat contains lots of heme).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beetroothttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beef
The red color in beets is produced by betanin, not heme. Iron in beets is present in other compounds. 100 grams of beet root will give you about 6 percent of your daily iron requirement, where 100 grams of beef will give you about 20%.

https://living.thebump.com/should-eat-beets-iron-6916.html
The iron in food isn’t all created equal. Iron in meats, such as beef, poultry and fish, called heme iron, is easily and well absorbed by your body. The iron in vegetables such as beets, as well as in grains and legumes -- called non-heme iron -- is not as well absorbed as heme iron. Eating foods high in heme iron or in vitamin C -- such as citrus fruits -- at the same meal as vegetables like beets can increase the absorption of iron.
 
  • #60
It would be very interesting to see who exactly falls for ("errr I mean pays for and consumes") these fake meat products. I wouldn't imagine it is the die hard vegans, but more likely the average uneducated and unaware person that buys into the idea that saturated fat and cholesterol are bad. The truth is the moral argument for veganism does not hold any weight past an initial, understandable position of respecting animals, to which I as a meat-eater(thriving human) actually agree with at its very core. If you want to kill the least amount of animals, follow a diet that is predominantly made up of large ruminants.