Nitrogen production in stellar nucleosynthesis?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the production of nitrogen in stellar nucleosynthesis, particularly during the helium fusion stage of stars. Participants explore the processes involved in the formation of nitrogen, its relative abundance compared to other elements like carbon and oxygen, and the origins of lighter elements such as lithium, beryllium, and boron.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how nitrogen is produced between carbon and oxygen, suggesting possible decay processes of oxygen or carbon.
  • Another participant notes that nitrogen is produced in the CNO cycle, as well as through photodisintegration and beta decays, while emphasizing its rarity compared to carbon and oxygen.
  • A participant references a graph of elemental abundances to illustrate the relative scarcity of lithium, beryllium, and boron compared to heavier elements.
  • Concerns are raised about the CNO cycle, with a participant asserting that it does not produce new carbon, nitrogen, or oxygen, but rather uses existing elements as catalysts.
  • Another participant argues that nitrogen can build up in the atmosphere due to its relative unreactivity, despite its lower abundance in the galaxy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the processes involved in nitrogen production and its abundance. There is no consensus on how nitrogen is formed or its significance in the atmosphere relative to other elements.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on assumptions about the processes of stellar nucleosynthesis and the definitions of elemental abundance. The discussion includes unresolved questions about the mechanisms of nitrogen production and the implications of its atmospheric presence.

bbbl67
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So once a star enters the helium fusion stage, it uses the Triple-alpha process to create Carbon from Helium. It then uses the Alpha Ladder process to create Oxygen from Carbon. So my question is, how is Nitrogen, in between Carbon and Oxygen, produced? All I can think of is that either Oxygen decays down to Nitrogen, or Carbon decays up to Nitrogen. If nitrogen is indeed produced through just decays, is this a large enough process to produce the amount of nitrogen we see all around us (70% of Earth's atmosphere)?

Also how are all of the stuff between Helium and Carbon produced, such Lithium, Beryllium, & Boron? Some Lithium might have been produced somewhat in Big Bang nucleosynthesis, but not all?
 
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Nitrogen is rare compared to carbon and oxygen. It is a factor 5-10 less common in our galaxy.
It is produced in the CNO cycle but also via photodisintegration and beta decays.

Most lithium is still from the big bang, the other light nuclides are products from cosmic rays or side-reactions in fusion processes.
 
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Look at this graph of elemental abundances in the solar system. Note it is a log scale, so you can see how much rarer Li, Be, and B are than heavier elements. You can also see the alternating pattern caused by what you called the Alpha Ladder.
SolarSystemAbundances.png
 

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mfb said:
Nitrogen is rare compared to carbon and oxygen. It is a factor 5-10 less common in our galaxy.
It is produced in the CNO cycle but also via photodisintegration and beta decays.

Most lithium is still from the big bang, the other light nuclides are products from cosmic rays or side-reactions in fusion processes.
I thought in the CNO cycle no new carbon, nitrogen or oxygen are produced? Any pre-existing CNO is used as a catalyst during the reactions, but immediately returned intact after the reaction is done. Also if Nitrogen is so rare, why is it such a dominant part of our atmosphere?
 
bbbl67 said:
I thought in the CNO cycle no new carbon, nitrogen or oxygen are produced? Any pre-existing CNO is used as a catalyst during the reactions, but immediately returned intact after the reaction is done. Also if Nitrogen is so rare, why is it such a dominant part of our atmosphere?

As you see in the CNO cycle, N is produced by proton capture from C. If there is no N to begin with, it will build up until the rate of destruction in the CNO cycle equals the rate of production. So there will be an equilibrium concentration. Also, as you see in the graph I uploaded, N is not that rare. The reason it builds up in the atmosphere is that it is relatively unreactive. The total mass of N in the Earth's atmosphere is tiny compared to the mass of elements such as C in the solid mass of the Earth.
 
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