No need for dark matter, dark energy, MONDS, ect, nothing exotic?

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The discussion centers around a paper that uses lattice calculations to explore gravity without invoking dark matter, dark energy, or modified Newtonian dynamics (MOND). The author presents a model suggesting that most energy is trapped in matterless gravitational fields, challenging existing theories constrained by observable phenomena. Critics argue that while the model offers interesting insights, it lacks rigorous explanations for phenomena like the bullet cluster and the overall energy density of the universe, which are well-accounted for by dark matter theories. The conversation highlights the need for reproducible results and the importance of addressing all observational data, including cosmic microwave background measurements. Ultimately, the paper raises questions about the validity of current models and the potential for new approximations to general relativity.
  • #31
From what I understand, it is not unlike the case of QCD where the non-abelian force (strong interaction) collapses into flux tubes, resulting into confinement. As a result this binding energy is indeed stored inside the system.

As far as the gas is concerned, if the mass distribution is the gas is homogeneous, then the symmetry of the system will be such that the flux lines will all compensate each other and result in no non-abelian net effect.
 
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  • #32
robva said:
From what I understand, it is not unlike the case of QCD where the non-abelian force (strong interaction) collapses into flux tubes, resulting into confinement. As a result this binding energy is indeed stored inside the system.

As far as the gas is concerned, if the mass distribution is the gas is homogeneous, then the symmetry of the system will be such that the flux lines will all compensate each other and result in no non-abelian net effect.

I should have been more careful in the second paagraph. What I meant is that there will be no non-abelian net effect seen from outside the system. Like QCD, everything will stay confined. In the case of the bullet cluster, you see that the two mass maximum are offset from the two gas density spikes. Gas dominates the visible mass of the cluster so it was seen as a proof of dark matter.

In this approach however, the graviton field self interaction effects (the contact term in G^2 in the paper) will dominate this gas. This is the strength of these effects that are able to deform the space-time and bend the light to make a gravitational lens.

To sum it up, the field self-interaction plays the role of dark matter in other models
 
  • #33
In the context of the weak approximation he made in this paper, the lensing effect can not be directly computed from the lagrangien. He kept only the scalar term which can only couple with the trace of the Fmunu tensor to produce an invariant. Since this trace is zero, this model does not allow photons to couple with gravitons. It is simply necessary for future work to extent this model to rank2 tensor in order to compute lensing directly from graviton interactions. It is very difficult to compute on a lattice but some people are starting to look at it. A simpler approach is simply to use the potential he got and via a semi-classical approach do a estimate of the lensing effects. That should work fine since it is essentially what current lensing models do using the Newtonian gravity potential with extra mass coming in from dark matter.
Alexandre is going to look at that, its on his long list of things to do.
 
  • #34
robva said:
It is very difficult to compute on a lattice but some people are starting to look at it.

So, it wasn't just me who got interested in his work?

BTW, I'd like to know how does the non abelian nature of his model relates to frame dragging.
 

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