Non-homogenous ODE, non-homogenous boundaries

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on solving a non-homogeneous ordinary differential equation (ODE) related to a Joule-heating problem, specifically focusing on boundary conditions that are a mix of Dirichlet and Neumann types. Participants explore various methods for finding solutions, including analytical approaches and numerical methods.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the ODE Txx + aT = -b with specified boundary conditions and expresses difficulty in solving it using finite difference methods (FDM).
  • Another participant shares a solution derived from Mathematica but acknowledges uncertainty about its derivation.
  • A subsequent reply clarifies the need for a solution to the non-homogeneous boundary problem, contrasting it with a homogeneous boundary problem previously discussed.
  • One participant proposes a general solution form T(x) = C1*cos(sqrt(a)*x) + C2*sin(sqrt(a)*x) - b/a and relates it to the earlier Mathematica solution.
  • Discussion arises about the implications of negative values for 'a', with one participant suggesting that the solution remains valid by transforming the equation into terms of real functions.
  • A participant raises a new problem involving a different ODE with boundary conditions, questioning its solvability.
  • Another participant asserts that the new problem does not have a finite solution due to the nature of the boundary conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the solvability of the new problem presented, with some agreeing on the impossibility of a finite solution while others reflect on their understanding of the initial ODE and its boundary conditions. No consensus is reached on the broader implications of the solutions discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the boundary conditions and the potential for different solution forms depending on the values of parameters involved, particularly 'a'. There are unresolved aspects regarding the derivation of solutions and the implications of negative parameters.

nrhoades
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I've made a lot of simplifications to a Joule-heating problem I'm working on. I'm struggling to solve the following one-dimensional, one variable ODE:

Txx + aT = -b

with boundary conditions

T(x=0) = Ts (Dirichlet)
Tx(x=L) = 0 (Neumann)

I've learned that this is a non-homogeneous ODE with non-homogenous boundaries. I've tried using FDM to solve them and then fitting the data to a function, but I didn't get far.

I would love some help on this. I have much more experience with numerical analysis than analytical. I really need a math-wiz's help.
 
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I apologize for being to lazy to work out where this really comes from, but here's the solution Mathematica gives:

<br /> T(x)\to \frac{1}{a}\left(-b \cot \left(\sqrt{a} L\right) \sin \left(\sqrt{a} x\right)+b \csc \left(\sqrt{a} L\right) \sin \left(\sqrt{a} x\right)+b \cos \left(\sqrt{a} x\right)-a T_s \cot \left(\sqrt{a} L\right) \sin \left(\sqrt{a} x\right)+a T_s \cos \left(\sqrt{a} x\right)-b\right)<br />
 
pmsrw3 said:
I apologize for being to lazy to work out where this really comes from, but here's the solution Mathematica gives:

<br /> T(x)\to \frac{1}{a}\left(-b \cot \left(\sqrt{a} L\right) \sin \left(\sqrt{a} x\right)+b \csc \left(\sqrt{a} L\right) \sin \left(\sqrt{a} x\right)+b \cos \left(\sqrt{a} x\right)-a T_s \cot \left(\sqrt{a} L\right) \sin \left(\sqrt{a} x\right)+a T_s \cos \left(\sqrt{a} x\right)-b\right)<br />

pmsrw3, very close! Please see the following two plots:

The equation you gave models the homogenous boundary problem exactly, which is:

Txx + aT = -b, T(x=0) = Ts, T(x=L) = 0 (first plot)

What I need is the solution to the NON-homogenous boundary problem:

Txx + aT = -b, T(x=0) = Ts, Tx(x=L) = 0 (second plot)

the difference being that the x=L boundary is Neumann, not Dirichlet.

Can you do what you did again with this Newmann boundary?

Almost there!
 

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Oops, sorry. I must have left out a '.

<br /> T(x)\to \frac{(a T_s+b) \sec \left(\sqrt{a} L\right) \cos \left(\sqrt{a} (L-x)\right)-b}{a}
 
I simultaneously found the solution. The form is

T(x) = C1*cos(sqrt(a)*x) + C2*sin(sqrt(a)*x) - b/a

where C1 = Ts + b/a, C2 = C1*tan(sqrt(a)*L)

Your solution looks like it takes this form after some trig flexing.

Thanks!
 

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What do you get when a is negative?
 
The same result will work. \sqrt{a} is imaginary, but it all works out real in the end. \cos(i\alpha) = \cosh(\alpha), \sec(i\alpha) = \text{sech}(\alpha).

If you want it written in terms of explicitly real functions: Letting alpha = -a, assuming alpha > 0, and solving T&#039;&#039;(x)-\alpha T(x)=-b, I get

<br /> T(x)\to \frac{e^{\sqrt{\alpha } (-x)} \left(\alpha T_s \left(e^{2 \sqrt{\alpha } L}+e^{2 \sqrt{\alpha } x}\right)-b \left(e^{\sqrt{\alpha } x}-1\right) \left(e^{\sqrt{\alpha } x}-e^{2 \sqrt{\alpha } L}\right)\right)}{\alpha \left(e^{2 \sqrt{\alpha } L}+1\right)}<br />
 
Thanks! Thread closed!
 
pmsrw3: Last one...

Quickly, can you do:

y'' = 0
y'(x=0) = inf
y(x=L) = a

I don't know if this is possible.

Thanks!
 
  • #10
I don't need to run that one -- it obviously doesn't have a solution. y'' = 0 says y' is the same everywhere. y' is infinite at 0, so it's infinite everywhere. Obviously this does not have a finite solution.
 
  • #11
I FDM'ed this too and I agree. For some reason it wasn't obvious to me at first. Thanks.
 

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