Non-integrable tangent distributions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of non-integrable tangent distributions, particularly in the context of the Frobenius integrability theorem. Participants explore examples of two-dimensional non-integrable distributions in three dimensions and the conditions under which a tangent distribution is considered integrable or involutive.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions what types of tangent distributions are not integrable and seeks concrete examples of two-dimensional non-integrable distributions in three dimensions.
  • Another participant references the Frobenius integrability theorem, explaining that it provides criteria for finding functions related to one-forms and integral surfaces, suggesting that the problem is nontrivial in higher dimensions.
  • A participant mentions their course notes, which describe the Frobenius theorem in terms of involutivity and provides a definition of integrability based on the existence of submanifolds.
  • There is a confirmation that the definitions discussed are equivalent, indicating a shared understanding of the theorem's implications.
  • One participant reflects on their earlier confusion regarding the theorem, noting that their initial graphical interpretation led to a misunderstanding that was clarified through equations.
  • Concerns about the abundance of recommended literature are expressed, highlighting the challenge of finding time to read.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and implications of the Frobenius integrability theorem, but there is no consensus on specific examples of non-integrable distributions, and some uncertainty remains regarding the sophistication of the course materials.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in the course notes, particularly that the Frobenius theorem was mentioned but not proved, which may affect participants' understanding of the topic.

jostpuur
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What kind of tangent distributions are not integrable? Is there concrete examples with two dimensional non-integrable distributions in three dimensions? When I draw a picture of two smooth vector fields in three dimensions, they always seem to generate some submanifold, indicating integrability.
 
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Examples of the Frobenius Integrability Theorem

For other readers: jostpuur is asking about a fundamental result in the theory of manifolds, the Frobenius integrability theorem, which gives a very simple answer to questions like this: given a one-form \alpha, when can we find functions f,g such that \alpha = f \, dg? In this case, in terms of DEs we have found an integrating factor for the first order equation \alpha(h) = 0. For one-forms on R^3 the problem of finding "integral two-surfaces" through the two-analog of a vector field, which unlike the one-case is nontrivial, reduces to this question.

A special case of the Frobenius integrability theorem says that (assuming the given one-form \alpha is nonzero on the neighborhood of interest) there exist f,g such that \alpha = f \, dg iff d\alpha = \mu \wedge \alpha for some one-form \mu.

jostpuur, what book are you reading? This is so important that I am surprised it offers no examples. (I seem to constantly recommend Flanders, Differential Forms with Applications to the Physical Sciences, Dover reprint, which does offer examples.) Does what I've said before help you find an example? If not, ask again, I can give you explicit examples.
 
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I'm reading lecture notes of the course, which are in pdf form, but not in English. The notes mention Frobenius theorem, but it seems to be in a different form. It says that a tangent distribution is integrable precisely when it is involutive.

Distribution \Delta is defined to be integrable, when for each p\in M, there exists a submanifold N so that p\in N and that T_q N = \Delta_q for all q\in N.

Distribution is defined to be involutive, if always when X_p, Y_p\in \Delta_p, where X and Y are tangent vector fields, also [X,Y]_p\in \Delta_p.

Is this theorem the same thing what you were talking about, but only in different form?
 
Yes, exactly the same. Your course is more sophisticated than I thought, so you should see Flanders (for examples), Spivak (for alternative gender), and also Boothby (for alternative forms of the Frobenius theorem).
 
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By drawing pictures, it looked like that I would have had a counter example to the Frobenius theorem, but now when got into equations, the flaw in the attempt became apparent. So, it seems everything is fine now.

There seems to be a huge list of books I should read. Too many books, too little time.
 
Chris Hillman said:
Your course is more sophisticated than I thought

This theorem was only mentioned, and not proved, in the lecture notes. So it could be that the course is not as sophisticated as you were thinking, but I cannot know for sure of course.
 

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