Non-Messy Heat Bath Solutions for Physics Lab Experiments

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding non-messy heat bath solutions for physics lab experiments, specifically for measuring the pressure of air at constant volume to extrapolate absolute zero. Participants explore various heating methods and materials that could provide a safer and more convenient alternative to mineral oil and an acetone/dry ice slurry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using mineral oil for high temperatures but notes its messiness and safety concerns, proposing alternatives like soft, sealed thermal packs containing cross-linked polymers.
  • Another participant questions the feasibility of heating canola oil in a ziplock bag, expressing concerns about the bag's ability to withstand high temperatures and prevent spills.
  • A participant proposes using a sand bath as a potential heating solution, though they express uncertainty about the uniformity of temperature distribution in the sand.
  • Heating mantles are mentioned as a possible solution, with a participant seeking clarification on their effectiveness for accurate temperature measurement.
  • A suggestion is made to use a thermocouple within the air volume for temperature measurement, along with a modified magnetic stirrer to ensure proper mixing of the air.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views on the best heating methods and materials, with no consensus reached on a single solution. Concerns about safety, temperature control, and practicality are raised, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the temperature limits of various materials and the effectiveness of different heating methods, highlighting the need for further exploration and testing.

bcrowell
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I teach physics at a community college, and I do a lab in which the students measure the pressure of air at constant volume, extrapolating to determine absolute zero. To get the best results (and also to make the lab more fun), I've worked on getting the widest possible range of temperatures. Currently we're using mineral oil for the hottest temp (smoke point of about 150 C) and an acetone/dry ice slurry for the coldest (about -20 C). The mineral oil has some disadvantages, however. It's messy, it isn't reusable, and if we don't dry out the glassware before heating it, we get spattering. Sometimes students are inattentive about the temp and it starts to smoke. I've been trying to figure out of there is some other solution that would be more convenient.

What might be nice would be some kind of soft, sealed, reusable thermal pack. Some of these are sold for use with food, others for medical use. They seem to contain cross-linked polymers. Handling them would probably be safer than handling the mineral oil. I'm not sure, however, how hot you can get these things. One brand is advertised as being autoclavable at 120 C, which isn't that hot. I'm also not sure if you could really mold them around the Erlenmeyer flask holding the air sample.

Another idea that's occurred to me is simply to put some canola oil in a ziplock bag and heat it in a microwave. The smoke point of canola oil is 225 C, which is quite a bit higher than the 150 C that I'm shooting for. In the worst case where the bag inflated and popped open during heating, we'd just get a mess inside the microwave.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

-Ben
 
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Is it possible to use a simple sand bath (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_bath)?

I'm not sure heating canola oil in a ziplock is the best solution. I'm not so sure the ziplock be able to withstand the high temperatures and be secure enough to prevent spilling hot oil on your students.
 
Aha! Thanks, Ygggdrasil, that's exactly the information I needed!

[EDIT] The only thing that occurs to me now is that I'm not sure how equalized the temperature of the sand would be. You probably can't stir it as well as you can stir a liquid.
 
Heating mantle?
 
Use a thermocouple within the air volume. Simplest way is to buy a 1/16" dia. SS probe type TC (say from Omega) and use a swagelok or similar fitting to handle the pressure. Some method of stirring the air within would be best, say a modified magnetic stirrer?
 

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