- #1
MechaNick
- 5
- 1
Can I create a nonlinear spring, for a nonlinear oscillator, by putting many linear springs in series and parallel?
Nonlinear spring made from many different linear springs in series?
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Discussion Overview
The discussion centers around the feasibility of creating a nonlinear spring for use in a nonlinear oscillator by combining multiple linear springs in series and parallel configurations. Participants explore the implications of spring behavior under various conditions and the nature of nonlinearity in springs.
Discussion Character
- Debate/contested
- Technical explanation
- Conceptual clarification
Main Points Raised
- One participant suggests that combining linear springs in series and parallel could yield a nonlinear spring for a nonlinear oscillator.
- Another participant counters that the overall response will remain linear if only linear springs are used without additional mechanisms.
- It is proposed that allowing individual springs to reach their end-stops may introduce nonlinearity, similar to a logarithmic amplifier in electronics.
- A question is raised about whether cone-shaped springs are only nonlinear when fully compressed.
- One participant notes that nonlinearities can exist even without hard stops, but the nature of these nonlinearities would depend on the specific shapes and materials of the springs.
- Another participant expresses skepticism about the complexity of creating a nonlinear spring and inquires about existing experiences or rough mathematical models for designing such springs.
- A summary is presented suggesting that different springs with varying spring constants could be used to create a nonlinear spring.
- It is mentioned that most springs exhibit some degree of nonlinearity, which is often negligible until a certain amplitude is reached.
- One participant proposes using a cone-shaped spring analogy by combining several linear springs in series to manage amplitude and achieve nonlinearity.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express differing views on the possibility of creating a nonlinear spring from linear springs, with some arguing that it is feasible under certain conditions, while others maintain that the overall response will remain linear unless specific mechanisms are introduced. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.
Contextual Notes
Participants acknowledge the complexity of nonlinear spring behavior and the dependence on specific configurations, materials, and shapes, which complicates generalizations about their properties.
- #2
- 22,823
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No. Since each spring has linear response, the overall response will be linear.
- #3
tech99
Science Advisor
Gold Member
- 3,043
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However, if individual series springs are allowed to reach their end-stops, it seems a good way of tailoring a non linear response. Rather like the log-amp in electronics.
- #4
MechaNick
- 5
- 1
So individual springs must reach a full compression? So eben the cone-shaped springs are only nonlinear if compressed maximally?
- #5
- 11,326
- 8,754
You may find nonlinearities even without hard stops. But the actual nature of the nonlinearity would depend strongly on the shape and the materials. It would be hard to say anything general about them.
So if you want to make a nonlinear spring with specified properties, that is not much help.
So if you want to make a nonlinear spring with specified properties, that is not much help.
- #6
MechaNick
- 5
- 1
Is it really that complex? I mean it is true that nonlinearities are mathematically tedious and often almost unsolvable, but aren't there any experiences or rough maths for something like this? The basic problem is how must a spring look in order to create an anharmonic oscillator?
- #7
berkeman
Admin
- 69,393
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I did a Google search on nonlinear spring and got several good hits, including this one:MechaNick said:
https://www.acxesspring.com/non-linear-springs.html
- #8
MechaNick
- 5
- 1
Yes, but they are exactly representing the model I posed. It is a series of springs. And they must block in order to become nonlinear.
- #9
- 22,823
- 14,864
I mean, in reality, most springs will be non-linear. It is just that those non-linearities are usually assumed to be small and often are to good approximation.
- #10
MechaNick
- 5
- 1
Yes, it is said that all oscillators are probably containing some nonlinearity. But the thing is that they aren't measurable until one reaches a certain amplitude. In order to reduce that amplitude I thought I can create a cone shaped spring analogy by putting several linear springs in series. Like this:
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