Not back-to-back emission of decay products

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    Decay Emission
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the production and decay processes of the Z^0 boson, specifically addressing the observation that decay products, such as muons, are not emitted back-to-back as expected. Participants explore the implications of momentum conservation and the conditions under which the Z^0 is produced, referencing both real and simulated data from particle collisions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the Z^0 is produced at rest, leading to the expectation of back-to-back emission of decay products.
  • Another participant challenges this assertion, stating that the Z^0 is not produced at rest and questions the reasoning behind the initial claim.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of beam energy and its relation to the mass of the Z^0, suggesting that the Z^0 would have kinetic energy if the beam energy exceeds half its mass.
  • There is a suggestion that additional particles, such as photons, may be involved in the decay process, which could account for the observed momentum discrepancies.
  • Participants reference specific event displays and detector signals to support their arguments regarding the nature of the decay processes.
  • One participant proposes that the missing momentum could be attributed to hadronic activity not accounted for in the initial analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the Z^0 is produced at rest or the implications of beam energy on its decay. Multiple competing views remain regarding the interpretation of the data and the processes involved in the decay.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the frame of reference (lab frame vs. center of mass frame) plays a significant role in understanding the production and decay dynamics of the Z^0 boson. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of the events being analyzed and the contributions of various particles to the overall momentum conservation.

malawi_glenn
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Hi!

I am reading about the [itex]Z^0[/itex] production and decay processes at the moment.

I have understand that the [itex]Z^0[/itex] is produced at rest, and when it decays to two leptons (or quarks) they must be emitted back to back to conserve momentum.

But when I look at real and simulated data, the muons are not emitted back to back, there is a small deviation.

I just wonder "WHY"? Have I missed something fundamental?

I mean, I don't think it has to do with the bending in the central detector magnetic field.

http://www.particle.kth.se/zlab/project/images/event11/event11_side.gif

http://www4.tsl.uu.se/~Atlas/Webuppgift/simevent2.html
 
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Neither Z is produced at rest. Why do you think they are?
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Neither Z is produced at rest. Why do you think they are?

Ok so the explanation is that the Z is not produced in rest?

I can't see it =(

using four-vectors:

[tex]p(e^+) + p(e^-) = E_{cm} + \vec{0} = 2E_{beam} = p_Z[/tex]

So the Z boson's 3-momenta is equal to 0. I assue that the beams are totally head-on (same energy)
 
I think your sentence should read:
"I have understand thatif/in the frame in which the Z0 is produced at rest, then/there when it decays to two leptons (or quarks) they must be emitted back to back to conserve momentum."

I don't know what kind of event your first link is. But the 2nd one is LHC in the lab frame. The cms frame of the relevant partons that make up your process (i.e. ignoring the remants of the initial protons) does not have to coincide with the lab frame.

EDIT: Since I am late with my response: Ebeam is the energy of the proton beam (again@LHC) but you effectively collide quarks and gluons; not the whole protons.
 
Ok, then I see why they are not back to back @ LHC :)

But the first image is electron-postiron @ LEP.

In lab-frame if one has equal energy beams, then Z must be produced at rest also in lab-frame? That is what my equation above refers to, sorry if I wasn't clear enough.
 
Note that in the 1st link in addition to what supposedly is the two lepton tracks there is a green quad on the right side that indicates a detector signal and that the header sais "Hcal(N=2, SumE=4.5)" which might mean hadron calorimeter. Spontaneously from that I'd suspect that the process of the event is not "e+ e- -> s-channel Z -> mu+ mu-" but something different - but that's only a guess of mine.

EDIT: I've taken a look at the standard LEP91 setup of the Sherpa event generator. That setup includes processes with up to two QCD vertices. Assuming it wasn't put there just for fun that strengthens my idea that the missing p comes from hadronic stuff.
 
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malawi_glenn said:
In lab-frame if one has equal energy beams, then Z must be produced at rest also in lab-frame?

No. That would be true only if the beam energy were half the Z mass. As you can see from the e+e- event display, the beam energy is 65.129 GeV, significantly above half the Z mass.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
No. That would be true only if the beam energy were half the Z mass. As you can see from the e+e- event display, the beam energy is 65.129 GeV, significantly above half the Z mass.


Vanadium 50 said:
No. That would be true only if the beam energy were half the Z mass. As you can see from the e+e- event display, the beam energy is 65.129 GeV, significantly above half the Z mass.




Timo: Ok, but if the beam have 65.129 GeV, the Z boson will be emited with some kinetic energy. But what will be emitted to compensate for the momentum violation? (since we must have overall momentum conservation here?)

V-50: So what reaction can give away two muons and a hadronic signal in an ee-bar collider @ 65GeV beam energy? :S
 
malawi_glenn said:
What reaction can give away two muons and a hadronic signal in an ee-bar collider @ 65GeV beam energy? :S

e+e- goes to Z + something else. The most likely "something else" is a photon going down the beampipe. In fact, you can see it in the picture - it's the green thing on the right. It says 32.8 GeV of energy was detected in the forward calorimeter: 65*2 - 33 = 97 GeV, pretty close to 91 GeV.
 
  • #10
Vanadium 50 said:
e+e- goes to Z + something else. The most likely "something else" is a photon going down the beampipe. In fact, you can see it in the picture - it's the green thing on the right. It says 32.8 GeV of energy was detected in the forward calorimeter: 65*2 - 33 = 97 GeV, pretty close to 91 GeV.


Well yes that is of course possble, so the remaining 6GeV could be kinetic energy of the Z.

So the feynman - diag would be: https://www.physicsforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=13824&stc=1&d=1209838584

?
 

Attachments

  • zdiag.jpg
    zdiag.jpg
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  • #11
Yes, a diagram like that.
 
  • #12
Vanadium 50 said:
Yes, a diagram like that.

cool! :biggrin:

Thanx a lot Van-50 and Timo! See you around, and enjoy PF and life
 

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