Notation confusion; |\pi N; I, I_3> states

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the notation and implications of quantum states involving pions and nucleons, specifically the states denoted as ##|\pi N; I, I_3 \rangle##. Participants explore the meaning of the notation, the application of quantum mechanical operators, and the relationship between different states, including the use of Clebsch-Gordon coefficients.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the notation ##|\pi N; \frac{3}{2},\frac{3}{2}\rangle## implies a tensor product of states, specifically ##|\pi ;1,1\rangle \otimes | N; \frac{1}{2},\frac{1}{2}\rangle##.
  • Another participant clarifies that "N" stands for nucleon, identifying the nucleon states as proton and neutron based on isospin values.
  • There is a discussion about applying the lowering operator ##I_-## to obtain different states, with one participant suggesting that this operator acts on both the pion and the nucleon states.
  • Participants mention that the coefficients in the resulting states are similar to Clebsch-Gordon coefficients, although the exact nature of these coefficients is not fully resolved.
  • A later reply confirms the correctness of the proposed operation involving the lowering operator and its effects on the states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the interpretation of the notation and the application of the lowering operator, but there is no consensus on the detailed implications of the coefficients or the exact nature of the operations involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the definitions of isospin and the roles of various quantum states, which may not be fully articulated. The relationship between the tensor product and the coefficients remains somewhat ambiguous.

Gregg
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Notation confusion; ## |\pi N; I, I_3 \rangle ## states

In my book it says for the ##\pi N ## state:

##|\pi N; \frac{3}{2},\frac{3}{2}\rangle =|\pi ;1,1\rangle | N; \frac{1}{2},\frac{1}{2}\rangle##

firstly, does this mean:

##|\pi N; \frac{3}{2},\frac{3}{2}\rangle =|\pi ;1,1\rangle \otimes | N; \frac{1}{2},\frac{1}{2}\rangle## ?

Not that it really matters, but next it says that you can use quantum mechanical shift ladder to get


##|\pi N; \frac{3}{2},\frac{1}{2}\rangle =-\sqrt{\frac{1}{3}}|\pi ^+n\rangle +\sqrt{\frac{2}{3}}| \pi ^0 p\rangle##

I'm really not too sure what this means, and the notation is not too clear to me, could someone explain it to me? In the title I and I_3 refers to isospin. I don't know what the N indicates, Baryon number? Is the tensor product a key to get the coefficients, are they similar to Clebsch-Gordon coefficients or what is the ladder operation for spin in terms of these vectors? I really don't have much understanding of the notation or implications at the moment.
 
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The N stands for Nucleon. The nucleon states with I=1/2 are proton (I3= +1/2) and neutron (I3 = -1/2). So the first line says the combined state with I = 3/2, I3 = 3/2 consists of π+ and proton.

To get the last line, we apply the operator I- that lowers total I3. It acts on both the pion and the proton. Lowering the proton to a neutron gives us the first term, while lowering the π+ to a π0 gives us the second term. As you say, the √'s in front of these terms are Clebsch-GordAn coefficients.
 
Bill_K said:
The N stands for Nucleon. The nucleon states with I=1/2 are proton (I3= +1/2) and neutron (I3 = -1/2). So the first line says the combined state with I = 3/2, I3 = 3/2 consists of π+ and proton.

To get the last line, we apply the operator I- that lowers total I3. It acts on both the pion and the proton. Lowering the proton to a neutron gives us the first term, while lowering the π+ to a π0 gives us the second term. As you say, the √'s in front of these terms are Clebsch-GordAn coefficients.


OK, so would a way to look at that operation be:

##I_- |\pi N; \frac{3}{2},\frac{3}{2}\rangle = I_- |\pi ;1,1\rangle \otimes | N; \frac{1}{2},\frac{1}{2}\rangle + |\pi ;1,1\rangle \otimes I_-| N; \frac{1}{2},\frac{1}{2}\rangle## ?

Which will give me

## k_1 |\pi^0 p \rangle + k_2 | \pi^+ n\rangle ## ?

where the coefficients are CG coefficients?
 
Thanks for the help
 

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