Notation relating to gamma matrices

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the notation and interpretation of gamma matrices in quantum field theory (QFT), specifically focusing on the antisymmetrization of indices represented by square brackets. Participants explore the implications of this notation, its mathematical formulation, and the rules governing permutations of indices.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the notation \(\gamma^{\mu_1 \mu_2 \mu_3 \mu_4}\) represents a commutator-like structure involving permutations of gamma matrices.
  • Others argue that the right-hand side of the notation indicates a sum over all possible permutations, similar to the case of two indices.
  • A participant clarifies that the square bracket notation signifies the antisymmetrization of indices, providing a specific mathematical expression for this operation.
  • Another participant mentions the need to multiply each term by the sign of its permutation and suggests that this may involve dividing by the number of gamma matrices being antisymmetrized.
  • Questions arise regarding the determination of the sign of permutations, with one participant suggesting that cyclic permutations are positive while anticyclic permutations are negative.
  • A later reply elaborates that for N indices, the sign is determined by whether the permutation is even or odd based on the number of pairwise interchanges needed to restore numerical order.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various interpretations of the notation and its implications, leading to multiple competing views on the correct understanding of the antisymmetrization process and the rules for determining signs of permutations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding some aspects of the notation and its application.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential missing assumptions about the conventions used for antisymmetrization and the specific definitions of terms like "cyclic" and "anticyclic" permutations. The discussion does not resolve these nuances.

vertices
Messages
62
Reaction score
0
Hi

My QFT course assumes the following notation for gamma matrices:

\gamma ^{\mu_1 \mu_2 \mu_3 \mu_4} = {\gamma ^ {[\mu_1}}{\gamma ^ {\mu_2}}{\gamma ^ {\mu_3}}{\gamma ^ {\mu_4 ]}}

what does the thing on the right hand side actually mean? Its seems to be a commutator of some sort.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi vertices! :smile:

(have a gamma: γ and a mu: µ :wink:)

It means you add every possible permutation (just as in γµ[1µ2] you'd add every possible permutation, but there'd only be two of them! :wink:).
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi vertices! :smile:

(have a gamma: γ and a mu: µ :wink:)

It means you add every possible permutation (just as in γµ[1µ2] you'd add every possible permutation, but there'd only be two of them! :wink:).



Thanks tiny-tim:)

So for example, would I be right in saying that:

γµ1µ2µ1γµ2µ2γµ1?
 
Tiny-Tim forgot to tell you that you also must multiply each term by the sign of its permutation. That is, you must take a totally-antisymmetrized sum. You might also have to divide by N afterward, depending on the convention you're using (where N is the number of gamma matrices being antisymmetrized).
 
vertices said:
Thanks tiny-tim:)

So for example, would I be right in saying that:

γµ1µ2µ1γµ2µ2γµ1?

Actually, the usual definition for the square bracket, like \gamma^{\mu\nu} \equiv \gamma^{[\mu} \gamma^{\nu]} is the anti-symmetrization of the indices. For this case I just mentioned,
\gamma^{\mu\nu} = \gamma^\mu\gamma^\nu - \gamma^\nu\gamma^\mu
And for example,
\gamma^{\mu\nu\rho}<br /> \equiv \gamma^{[\mu}\gamma^{\nu}\gamma^{\rho]}<br /> = \frac{1}{3!}\left( \gamma^\mu\gamma^\nu\gamma^\rho - \gamma^\mu\gamma^\rho\gamma^\nu + \gamma^\nu\gamma^\rho\gamma^\mu -\gamma^\nu\gamma^\mu\gamma^\rho +\gamma^\rho\gamma^\mu\gamma^\nu -\gamma^\rho\gamma^\nu\gamma^\mu \right)<br />
 
Ben Niehoff said:
Tiny-Tim forgot to tell you that you also must multiply each term by the sign of its permutation. That is, you must take a totally-antisymmetrized sum. You might also have to divide by N afterward, depending on the convention you're using (where N is the number of gamma matrices being antisymmetrized).

sorry can I ask a stupid question: what is the 'sign' of a permutation?
 
ismaili said:
Actually, the usual definition for the square bracket, like \gamma^{\mu\nu} \equiv \gamma^{[\mu} \gamma^{\nu]} is the anti-symmetrization of the indices. For this case I just mentioned,
\gamma^{\mu\nu} = \gamma^\mu\gamma^\nu - \gamma^\nu\gamma^\mu
And for example,
\gamma^{\mu\nu\rho}<br /> \equiv \gamma^{[\mu}\gamma^{\nu}\gamma^{\rho]}<br /> = \frac{1}{3!}\left( \gamma^\mu\gamma^\nu\gamma^\rho - \gamma^\mu\gamma^\rho\gamma^\nu + \gamma^\nu\gamma^\rho\gamma^\mu -\gamma^\nu\gamma^\mu\gamma^\rho +\gamma^\rho\gamma^\mu\gamma^\nu -\gamma^\rho\gamma^\nu\gamma^\mu \right)<br />

can i ask you how the the sign of each term is determined? How do you decide which term is positive and which term is negative?

thanks.
 
Aahh I've figured it out i think - cyclic permutations are positive; anticyclic permutations are negative. A bit like the levi-civita thingy..
 
vertices said:
Aahh I've figured it out i think - cyclic permutations are positive; anticyclic permutations are negative. A bit like the levi-civita thingy..

This works for 3 indices or less. For N indices, you check whether it is an even or odd permutation of {1,2,3,4,...,N}. That is, you count the number of pairwise interchanges required to bring the indices back to numerical order. If it takes an even number of switches, the term gets a plus sign; otherwise, a minus sign.
 
  • #10
Ben Niehoff said:
This works for 3 indices or less. For N indices, you check whether it is an even or odd permutation of {1,2,3,4,...,N}. That is, you count the number of pairwise interchanges required to bring the indices back to numerical order. If it takes an even number of switches, the term gets a plus sign; otherwise, a minus sign.

interesting. thanks for pointing this out Ben.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
752
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
11K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K