Novice question about heat, ZPE and HUP

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between heat, zero-point energy, and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, particularly in the context of reaching absolute zero. Participants explore theoretical implications and definitions related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the uncertainty principle generates heat.
  • There is a suggestion that it is not theoretically possible to reach absolute zero, but one can get asymptotically close.
  • One participant defines zero-point energy as the residual energy due to quantum effects at absolute zero, noting that it would be zero in a purely classical system.
  • Another participant mentions that in statistical quantum mechanics, a system can be prepared in a lowest energy pure quantum state, which could imply a temperature of zero.
  • Superfluids and Bose-Einstein condensates are referenced as systems that may formally have a temperature of zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the possibility of reaching absolute zero and the implications of zero-point energy, indicating that multiple competing views remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of temperature and energy states in quantum mechanics, as well as the implications of the uncertainty principle on thermal states.

jackle
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Hi,

I was watching a pop-sci TV program on heat recently. Specifically, it was about trying to reach the lowest temperature possible. I was trying to recall something I learned about the uncertainty principle being a barrier to reaching absolute zero. When I searched on the internet I got some stuff back about zero point energies, but I could not work out how the concepts of heat, zero point energy and uncertainty fit together.

1) Does the uncertainty principle generate heat?

2) Is it theoretically possible to reach absolute zero?

3) Is a system at the zero point energy also at absolute zero?

Thanks
 
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jackle said:
Hi,

I was watching a pop-sci TV program on heat recently. Specifically, it was about trying to reach the lowest temperature possible. I was trying to recall something I learned about the HUP being a barrier to reaching absolute zero. When I searched on the internet I got some stuff back about zero point energies, but I could not work out how the concepts of heat, ZPE and uncertainty fit together.

1) Does the HUP generate heat?

2) Is it theoretically possible to reach absolute zero?

3) Is a system at the ZPE also at absolute zero?

Thanks

It would be helpful if you avoid using acronyms as much as possible, unless they are 100% commonly known (like USA). My guess is that you meant

HUP = Heisenberg uncertainty principle
ZPE = zero-point energy

Eugene.
 
You guessed right.

Sorry for being lazy, I have tried to put it right by editing the original post.
 
1) Not that I'm aware of.

2) No, but you can get asymptotically close.

3) ZPE is defined as the residual energy (potential + kinetic) due to quantum effects at 0 K. If it weren't for quantum effects- the system would have a lower potential energy (with a kinetic energy of zero). The difference between the system's actual energy and its hypothetical classical energy is the zero-point energy. i.e. the zero-point energy would be zero if the system were purely classical (hbar ->0).
 
jackle said:
2) Is it theoretically possible to reach absolute zero?

3) Is a system at the zero point energy also at absolute zero?

Thanks

In statistical quantum mechanics, a system is at temperature T if it is in a mixed state where all possible energy levels enter with their weights [itex]\exp(-E/kT)[/itex]. In principle, it is possible to prepare a macroscopic system (e.g., a piece of crystal) in a lowest energy pure quantum state. This would effectively mean that T=0. I think that superfluids or Bose-Einstein condensates also formally have T=0.

Eugene.
 

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