Nuclear Doppler broadening of resonances

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of nuclear Doppler broadening of resonances, particularly focusing on the absorption cross section of neutrons in relation to temperature and relative velocities in the Center of Mass frame. Participants seek to understand the physical reasoning behind the independence of the area under the absorption curve from temperature changes, without relying on mathematical proofs.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Ric expresses confusion about why the area under the absorption cross section curve remains constant despite temperature changes affecting the relative speed of neutrons and nuclei.
  • Some participants suggest that a broadband source with equal power across energy intervals leads to total scattered power being independent of temperature, but they seek clarification on this point.
  • There is a distinction made between scattering and absorption cross sections, with Ric emphasizing that his focus is specifically on absorption.
  • One participant argues that the total scattering cross section remains unchanged regardless of temperature because the number of scatterers does not change, although this point is challenged by Ric's focus on absorption.
  • A later reply acknowledges the confusion regarding absorption versus scattering cross sections and suggests that absorption cross sections are conceptually simpler since they do not involve directional considerations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between temperature, absorption cross section, and the nature of the source involved. There are competing views on how these factors interact, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and implications of scattering versus absorption cross sections, and there are unresolved questions regarding the nature of the source and its impact on the absorption process.

dRic2
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Hi,
absorption cross section in resonance depends on the relative speed of neutron and nucleus in Center of Mass frame. As you can see here
https://www.nuclear-power.net/glossary/doppler-broadening/
Temperature plays a big role in determining resonance absorption cross.
I don't understand why the area under the curve remains the same. Can you give some physical insight ?

Thanks
Ric

PS: I have a "feeling" for it, I'd like a "rigorous" logical proof that does not require math. In the book I consulted it is simply stated that the curve can be expressed as a particular function and then it was left to the reader to prove that the integral is independent of temperature. I don't like this approach because the meaning of the function was not explained so I could not get the physical intuition behind it.
 
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I am not sure what the nature of the source is that is getting scattered, but what I believe they are telling you is that if you have a very broadband source that has equal powers for equal energy intervals (or frequencies), that the total scattered power will be independent of temperature. You can either get a lot of scattered power in a very narrow energy (frequency) region, or a little bit of power in each energy interval that occurs over a wide range of energies (or frequencies).
 
Charles Link said:
what I believe they are telling you is that if you have a very broadband source that has equal powers for equal energy intervals (or frequencies), that the total scattered power will be independent of temperature. You can either get a lot of scattered power in a very narrow energy (frequency) region, or a little bit of power in each energy interval that occurs over a wide range of energies (or frequencies).
But Why ?

Charles Link said:
I am not sure what the nature of the source is that is getting scattered
What source ? I don't understand. Sorry if I poorly stated the question here let me try to make it a little better:

I have neutrons moving inside of a medium. The "probability" of a neutron to be absorbed by the atoms of the medium has some peaks at particular energies. The kinetic energy of the neutron seen by the atom depends on the relative velocity. A temperature change implies a change of atoms' velocity so the relative velocity between the atoms and the neutrons changes. This implies a change in the "probability" (cross section) that a neutron is absorbed near the peak (resonance).
 
In the total scattering cross section, it doesn't matter how much the particles are scattered. Anything that gets scattered at all by the scatterers is counted as having been scattered. In this scenario, regardless of temperature, the number of scatterers doesn't change. Thereby the total scattering cross section doesn't change. The frequency that each scatterer selects is affected by the temperature, but not the existence of the scatterer.
 
Thanks for the reply. I think I'll be back in a couple of days because I have to study a lot and my brain decided to stop working right now :D
 
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Charles Link said:
In the total scattering cross section
But I'm talking about absorption cross section... it's one specific reaction.

Charles Link said:
Anything that gets scattered at all by the scatterers is counted as having been scattered
Again, I'm only counting the neutron that are absorbed not every neutron that interacts with a nucleus.

Charles Link said:
In this scenario, regardless of temperature, the number of scatterers doesn't change.
Sorry, I'm not following at all...

God, I feel stupid right now :(
 
I didn't realize you were doing absorption cross section here, but the principles are very similar to scattering cross section. Try reading through this "link" which will tell you all about scattering cross sections. https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...a-rutherfords-experiment.965947/#post-6131309 .
Absorption cross sections are actually easier to do because you don't need to worry about what direction the particle goes. It simply gets swallowed up. I think by reading and studying the "link", you might get an understanding for cross sections in general=both the differential one ## \frac{d \sigma}{d \Omega} ##, and the total scattering cross section ## \sigma_{total} ##.
And don't give up. This stuff is normally not written up very well in the textbooks. It took me a long, long time to figure it out. I do think you might find the above "link" very helpful.
 

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