Number of Homomorphisms from $\mathbb{Z}_4$ to $S_4$: A Brief Exploration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the number of homomorphisms from the group $\mathbb{Z}_4$ to the symmetric group $S_4$. Participants explore the properties of homomorphisms, the implications of the orders of elements, and the process of determining valid mappings from generators of $\mathbb{Z}_4$ to elements of $S_4$. The conversation includes technical reasoning and questions about definitions and conditions for homomorphisms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that identifying homomorphisms involves choosing images for the generator of $\mathbb{Z}_4$ and determining the images of other elements based on this choice.
  • There is a discussion about the requirement that the order of the image of the generator must divide the order of the generator itself.
  • Participants question how to find the number of valid images for the generator and how many of these correspond to actual homomorphisms.
  • Some participants express confusion about the implications of the definition of a homomorphism and how it applies to specific mappings.
  • There is a consideration of the total number of elements in $S_4$ and how this relates to the potential homomorphisms.
  • Participants explore the consequences of choosing different images for the generator and the resulting mappings.
  • Questions arise regarding the cycle types in $S_4$ and their respective orders, indicating a need for further exploration of this aspect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the basic properties of homomorphisms, but there is no consensus on the exact number of homomorphisms from $\mathbb{Z}_4$ to $S_4$ or the implications of the order conditions. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the application of definitions and the specific mappings.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved questions about the specific cycle types in $S_4$ and how they relate to the orders of elements, as well as the implications of the order conditions for homomorphisms. There is also uncertainty about the process of determining valid mappings and the number of candidates for homomorphisms.

evinda
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Hello! (Wave)

We are given the groups $G_1=\mathbb{Z}_4$ and $G_2=S_4$. We consider the homomorphisms $f: G_1 \to G_2$. Let $k$ be the number from all of these $f$. What is $k \bmod{6}$ equal to ?

How can we find the number of homomorphisms $f$? Could you give me a hint? (Thinking)
 
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evinda said:
Hello! (Wave)

We are given the groups $G_1=\mathbb{Z}_4$ and $G_2=S_4$. We consider the homomorphisms $f: G_1 \to G_2$. Let $k$ be the number from all of these $f$. What is $k \bmod{6}$ equal to ?

How can we find the number of homomorphisms $f$? Could you give me a hint?

Hey evinda!

We can identify and recognize homomorphisms based on the images of the generators.
$G_1$ is generated by $1$. That is, $G_1=\langle 1 \rangle$.
Once we pick an image for $1$, the images of all other elements are fixed. (Nerd)

If we pick for instance $f(1)=(12)$, then it follows that $f(2)=(), f(3)=(12)$, and we always have $f(0)=()$.
Note that the order of $1$ is $4$.
This order has to be a multiple of the order of the image $(12)$, which has order $2$.
So we've found one homomorphism.

How many possible images do we have for $1$? (Wondering)

And how many of the generated maps that correspond to them are actually homomorphisms? (Wondering)
 
I like Serena said:
Once we pick an image for $1$, the images of all other elements are fixed. (Nerd)

If we pick for instance $f(1)=(12)$, then it follows that $f(2)=(), f(3)=(12)$, and we always have $f(0)=()$.

How did we find the $f(2), f(3), f(0)$ ? :confused:

I like Serena said:
This order has to be a multiple of the order of the image $(12)$, which has order $2$.

Why does this have to hold? (Thinking)

I like Serena said:
So we've found one homomorphism.

How do we deduce this? (Worried)
I like Serena said:
How many possible images do we have for $1$? (Wondering)

How do we find how many possible images for $1$ there are? (Thinking)

I like Serena said:
And how many of the generated maps that correspond to them are actually homomorphisms? (Wondering)

I don't know so far... (Tmi)
 
evinda said:
How did we find the $f(2), f(3), f(0)$ ?

Can we apply the definition of a homomorphism to find them? (Wondering)

What is the definition of a homomorphism? (Wondering)

evinda said:
Why does this have to hold?

Because of what $f(0)$ has to be, based on the application of the definition that we are doing.

evinda said:
How do we deduce this?

By checking if the map we found satisfies the definition of a homomorphism.

evinda said:
How do we find how many possible images for $1$ there are?

How many elements does $S_4$ have? (Wondering)

evinda said:
I don't know so far...

Let's get back to that when we have applied the definition of a homomorphism to the previous questions. (Thinking)
 
I like Serena said:
Can we apply the definition of a homomorphism to find them? (Wondering)

What is the definition of a homomorphism? (Wondering)

The definition is that $f(u+v)=f(u) \cdot f(v)$, right? (Thinking)

So if $f(1)=(1 2) $, then $f(2)=f(1+1)=f(1)f(1)=(1 2)(1 2)=()$, $f(3)=f(2+1)=f(2)f(1)=()(1 2)=(1 2)$, $f(0)=f(4)=f(3)f(1)=(1 2)(1 2)=()$ right?

I like Serena said:
Because of what $f(0)$ has to be, based on the application of the definition that we are doing.

I still haven't understood why the order of $1$ has to be a multiple of the order of $(12)$... :confused:
I like Serena said:
By checking if the map we found satisfies the definition of a homomorphism.

So do we have to check the $f$ at each element of its domain separately to be able to say if it is a homomorphism? (Thinking)

I like Serena said:
How many elements does $S_4$ have? (Wondering)

$4!$, right?

I like Serena said:
Let's get back to that when we have applied the definition of a homomorphism to the previous questions. (Thinking)

Ok... (Nod)
 
evinda said:
The definition is that $f(u+v)=f(u) \cdot f(v)$, right? (Thinking)

So if $f(1)=(1 2) $, then $f(2)=f(1+1)=f(1)f(1)=(1 2)(1 2)=()$, $f(3)=f(2+1)=f(2)f(1)=()(1 2)=(1 2)$, $f(0)=f(4)=f(3)f(1)=(1 2)(1 2)=()$ right?

Yes.
And note that $f(4)=f(0)=()$. (Nerd)

evinda said:
I still haven't understood why the order of $1$ has to be a multiple of the order of $(12)$... :confused:

Suppose we pick $f(1)=(123)$, what will $f(4)$ be? (Wondering)
evinda said:
So do we have to check the $f$ at each element of its domain separately to be able to say if it is a homomorphism?

According to the definition we have to check every pair of elements in $G_1$ and check if they satisfy the condition.
We can make it a bit easier though.
Suppose $g$ is the single generator of $G_1$, and suppose $g$ has order $m$.
Than we can freely pick $f(g)$ with only the condition that $f(g^m)=f(g)^m$.
What does that mean for the order of $f(g)$? (Wondering)

evinda said:
$4!$, right?

Yep.
So we have 24 candidates for homomorphisms. (Thinking)
 
I like Serena said:
Suppose we pick $f(1)=(123)$, what will $f(4)$ be? (Wondering)

We will have $f(2)=(3 2 1)$, $f(3)=()$ and $f(4)=(1 2 3)$, right? (Thinking)

I like Serena said:
Suppose $g$ is the single generator of $G_1$, and suppose $g$ has order $m$.
Than we can freely pick $f(g)$ with only the condition that $f(g^m)=f(g)^m$.
What does that mean for the order of $f(g)$? (Wondering)

Why does it have to hold that $f(g^m)=f(g)^m$ ?

Don't we get from the definition that $f(g)^m=f(g) \cdots f(g)=f(mg)$ ? Or am I wrong? (Thinking)
I like Serena said:
Yep.
So we have 24 candidates for homomorphisms. (Thinking)

(Nod)
 
evinda said:
We will have $f(2)=(3 2 1)$, $f(3)=()$ and $f(4)=(1 2 3)$, right? (Thinking)

Yes.
And since 4=0 we must have f(4)=f(0).
Is that the case?

evinda said:
Why does it have to hold that $f(g^m)=f(g)^m$ ?

Don't we get from the definition that $f(g)^m=f(g) \cdots f(g)=f(mg)$ ? Or am I wrong?

Yes, since we are adding in G1, we must have $f(0)=f(mg)=f(g)^m=()$. (Thinking)
 
I like Serena said:
Yes.
And since 4=0 we must have f(4)=f(0).
Is that the case?

You said that we always have $f(0)=()$. Why?
Since this holds, it is not the case that $f(4)=f(0)$...

I like Serena said:
Yes, since we are adding in G1, we must have $f(0)=f(mg)=f(g)^m=()$. (Thinking)

A ok. And from this we get that the order of $f(g)$ divides $m$.
If the order would be a smaller integer than $m$, the order of $g$ would also be smaller, which is a contradiction.
Thus the order of $f(g)$ is $m$, right?
 
  • #10
evinda said:
You said that we always have $f(0)=()$. Why?

It's a property of a homomorphism.
We can prove it by observing that for any $a$ we have $f(a)=f(a+0)=f(a)f(0)$. Therefore $f(0)$ must be the identity. (Nerd)

evinda said:
Since this holds, it is not the case that $f(4)=f(0)$...

Indeed, so with $f(1)=(123)$ it's not an homomorphism. (Thinking)

evinda said:
A ok. And from this we get that the order of $f(g)$ divides $m$.

Correct. (Nod)

evinda said:
If the order would be a smaller integer than $m$, the order of $g$ would also be smaller, which is a contradiction.
Thus the order of $f(g)$ is $m$, right?

Huh? :confused:
Didn't we define $m$ as the order of $g$?
 
  • #11
I like Serena said:
It's a property of a homomorphism.
We can prove it by observing that for any $a$ we have $f(a)=f(a+0)=f(a)f(0)$. Therefore $f(0)$ must be the identity. (Nerd)

Ok, I see... (Nod)

I like Serena said:
Indeed, so with $f(1)=(123)$ it's not an homomorphism. (Thinking)

(Nod)
I like Serena said:
Huh? :confused:
Didn't we define $m$ as the order of $g$?

Yes, I wanted to prove that if the order of $f(g)$ would be smaller than $m$, then this would also hold for $g$, which is a contradiction.
 
  • #12
evinda said:
Yes, I wanted to prove that if the order of $f(g)$ would be smaller than $m$, then this would also hold for $g$, which is a contradiction.

Didn't we already see with f(1)=(12) that we have m=4 and order(f(1))=2? (Wondering)

Anyway, which cycle types does $S_4$ have and what are their respective orders? (Wondering)
 

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