Number of quarks inside a nucleon

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    Nucleon Quarks
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the number of quarks inside a nucleon, particularly through the Gross-Llewellyn-Smith (G&L-S) sum rule and its implications based on neutrino-nucleon scattering data. Participants explore the mathematical relationships and equations involved in this determination, including the roles of valence and sea quark distributions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about deriving the number of quarks from the G&L-S sum rule, noting that it equals three based on specific equations related to neutrino scattering.
  • Another participant suggests treating the problem as a system of equations involving valence and sea quark distributions, indicating that integrating these could yield the required results.
  • A participant presents a complex expression for the quark distribution, questioning how to extract the necessary quantities for integration.
  • Some participants highlight that the G&L-S sum rule involves oversimplifications, with experimental results suggesting a value closer to two-and-a-half rather than three, raising questions about the accuracy of the theoretical model.
  • There is a discussion about the systematic errors in experimental measurements, with one participant seeking clarification on how these errors are estimated.
  • Another participant derives an expression for antiquarks and discusses how to calculate valence quarks by subtracting the antiquark distribution from the total quark distribution.
  • Uncertainty is expressed regarding how to achieve an integer result when integrating the derived expressions using the G&L-S framework.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the derivation methods or the implications of the G&L-S sum rule, with multiple competing views and uncertainties remaining in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the G&L-S sum rule is based on certain assumptions and simplifications, and the experimental results introduce additional complexities that are not fully resolved in the discussion.

TheMan112
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I've been banging my head against the wall for days now trying to figure out how one determines the number of quarks inside the nucleon.

I understand it comes from the fact that the Gross-Llewellyn-Smith sum rule is equal to three:

\int ^1 _0 F_3 ^N (x) = \int ^1 _0 (u_V (x) + d_V (x)) = 3

This is based on neutrino-nucleon scattering data, a professor at my uni told me that it is derivable from these two equations:

\frac{d \sigma^{\nu N}}{dx} = \frac{G^2 M E}{\pi} x (q(x) + \bar q (x) /3)

\frac{d \sigma^{\bar \nu N}}{dx} = \frac{G^2 M E}{\pi} x (\bar q(x) + q (x) /3)

Where N is your average nucleon.

I don't know if this something that should follow naturally but I feel rather lost. :-p
 
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Think about as two equations in two unknowns: get qV(x) on one side and integrate it.
 
I was unclear - the two unknowns I was speaking of are q_V(x) and qbar(x). (i.e. the valence and sea distributions). Pull q_V to one side, integrate it, and G&L-S tell you it's 3.
 
Am I supposed to get q_V (x) from q(x) but keep \bar q(x)? I tried to extract q(x) from the system of equations, but I got a rather messy expression:

q(x) = \frac{9 \pi}{8 G^2 M E} \frac{1}{x} \left(\frac{1}{3} \frac{d \sigma^{\bar \nu N}}{dx} - \frac{d \sigma^{\nu N}}{dx}\right)

Not least when one would be integrating this, by parts and all. ;)

Edit: I suppose a better formulation might be; how do I get F_3 ^N (x) from the last two equations (in the first post).
 
Last edited:
qV = q - qbar.
 
It's probably also worth pointing out that there are many oversimplifications that go into the G&L-S sum rule. Experimentally, it's around two-and-a-half, but what was surprising wasn't that it wasn't exactly three, but that it wasn't even farther off.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
It's probably also worth pointing out that there are many oversimplifications that go into the G&L-S sum rule. Experimentally, it's around two-and-a-half, but what was surprising wasn't that it wasn't exactly three, but that it wasn't even farther off.
I agree, but would like to point out that the gluon radiation (or any name you give to higher orders in the evolution) come in excellent agreement with the data.

Sum_GLS(3 GeV^2) = 2.50 +/- 0.018 (stat) +/- 0.078 (syst) (CCFR collaboration Fermilab, Phys Lett B331 1994 655)
compared to 2.66 +/- 0.04 expected from CTEQ95 for instance.
 
humanino said:
Sum_GLS(3 GeV^2) = 2.50 +/- 0.018 (stat) +/- 0.078 (syst) (CCFR collaboration Fermilab, Phys Lett B331 1994 655)
compared to 2.66 +/- 0.04 expected from CTEQ95 for instance.

Does (syst) stand for systematic error? How do they estimate it?
 
In analogue with my last post I come to the expression for the antiquarks:

\bar q (x) = \frac{9 \pi}{8 G^2 M E} \frac{1}{x} \left(\frac{1}{3} \frac{d \sigma^{\nu N}}{dx} - \frac{d \sigma^{\bar \nu N}}{dx} \right)

The valence quarks can be calculated by subtracting q(x) and \bar q (x) as Vanadium suggested:

q_V (x) = q (x) - \bar q (x) = \frac{\pi}{G^2 M E} \frac{1}{x} \frac{3}{2} \left( \frac{d \sigma^{\bar \nu N}}{dx} - \frac{d \sigma^{\nu N}}{dx}\right)

I'm not sure how one reaches an integer answer when integrating this expression using GLS.
 

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