Obtaining a Future Numbers Increase With Exponent From Past Increase

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around predicting future values based on past increases of a number, specifically examining whether exponential growth can be applied to derive future counts from initial data points. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and exploratory analysis of exponential functions.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using the exponent derived from the increase from 15 to 200 over 20 days to predict the value on day 40, calculating an exponent of approximately 1.956.
  • Another participant questions the assumption of exponential growth and suggests that the equation used is equivalent to \(15^x = 200\), prompting a discussion on the validity of the exponential growth model.
  • A later reply confirms the assumption of exponential growth but seeks clarification on whether the derived exponent can be applied to predict future values.
  • One participant challenges the calculations, stating that they do not lead to an exponential increase and emphasizes the importance of using the correct exponential function parameters based on the data points.
  • Another participant suggests starting from scratch to determine the parameters of the exponential function using the provided data points.
  • A different approach is presented, calculating the future value using the equation \(N(t) = N_0 e^{kt}\) and providing specific values for \(N(40)\).
  • Concerns are raised about rounding errors in exponent calculations, with a suggestion that the predicted value should be adjusted based on the time intervals used.
  • One participant outlines a method for fitting an exponential curve to a time series using logarithmic transformations and linear regression.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the initial calculations and the assumptions of exponential growth. There is no consensus on the correct approach to predict future values, and multiple competing models and methods are discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the initial calculations, including the dependence on the assumption of exponential growth and the importance of correctly applying the exponential function parameters. There are unresolved issues regarding the impact of rounding errors on the predictions.

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TL;DR
With exponent from past numbers increase, apply to obtain future increase
Suppose on day-one a number is 15 then on day-twenty the number has increased to 200. Now I want to find out what that increasing number could be on day-forty by using the exponent derived from the day- one to day-twenty increase ; x(log15) = log 200 .
x = 2.301/1.176 = 1.956. So now on day twenty can I predict what this increasing number will be on day-forty applying exponent (1.956) to the count on day twenty (200) 200^1.956 = 31,682
 
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morrobay said:
Summary:: With exponent from past numbers increase, apply to obtain future increase

Suppose on day-one a number is 15 then on day-twenty the number has increased to 200. Now I want to find out what that increasing number could be on day-forty by using the exponent derived from the day- one to day-twenty increase ; x(log15) = log 200 .
Are you assuming that the numbers grow exponentially? Is there some reason that exponential growth is reasonable? Your equation just above is equivalent to ##15^x = 200##.

For exponential growth, the equation is typically given as ##N(t) = N_0e^t##.
morrobay said:
x = 2.301/1.176 = 1.956. So now on day twenty can I predict what this increasing number will be on day-forty applying exponent (1.956) to the count on day twenty (200) 200^1.956 = 31,682
 
Mark44 said:
Are you assuming that the numbers grow exponentially? Is there some reason that exponential growth is reasonable? Your equation just above is equivalent to ##15^x = 200##.

For exponential growth, the equation is typically given as ##N(t) = N_0e^t##.
Yes assuming exponential growth (flu cases) but just for pure math is this correct. Yes 15^1.956 = 200, as shown and obtained in post, So now can I apply that determined exponent to 200 , the count reached on day twenty : 200^1.956 = 31,682? to obtain the count on day forty,3,682. With the typical exponential growth equation would that be N(t) = 200 e^20 or would that be N(t)=15e^40 ?
 
Last edited:
Your calculation doesn't lead to an exponential increase.
Simple cross checks:
  • If the number at day 1 would be 0, your calculation would fail, but an exponential function has a value of 1 somewhere.
  • You didn't use the days anywhere, but clearly it matters when you have 15 and 200 cases and when you want to know the result.
  • If you double both initial numbers then all other numbers should double, but the rate of increase shouldn't change. It would in your calculation.
All three of them fail.

Start from scratch. Use the equation for an exponential function, determine the two free parameters using the two data points you have, then calculate the unknown value based on that.
 
mfb said:
Start from scratch. Use the equation for an exponential function, determine the two free parameters using the two data points you have, then calculate the unknown value based on that.
Strongly agree...
 
15 to 200 in 20 days. N(t) = Noe^kt, e^20k =13.33. 20k = ln13. 3 k =.13 So at 40 days N= 15e^40(.13) = 2719
 
And sure above is correct for N(40) since N(20) agreed: N(20) = 15e^20(.13) = 201
 
It's hard to read the calculations with that formatting. Line breaks would help already, but we have LaTeX support
morrobay said:
15 to 200 in 20 days.
19 days?

Be careful with rounding exponents, you quickly get large errors that way. If you assume 20 days between the original points then at 40 days you should get 2667 instead of 2719.
 
If you want to fit an exponential curve to a time series:
  1. Take the log of all the y-values.
  2. Do a linear regression of of the log values against the time values
  3. Now you have a best fit of the type log(y) = A⋅t +B
  4. Take the exponential: y=e^{At+B}
 

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