Orbits in Universe: Milky Way, Sun, Moon & More

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the orbits of celestial bodies, specifically focusing on the relationships between the Earth, Moon, Sun, Milky Way, and other galaxies. Participants explore the implications of these orbits within the context of astronomical phenomena and theories, including Hubble's Law and the concept of the Great Attractor.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the Moon orbits the Earth, the Earth orbits the Sun, and the Sun orbits the supermassive black hole (SMBH) at the center of the Milky Way, questioning what larger structure the Milky Way might orbit.
  • Another participant challenges the notion that the Sun has a simple orbit around the SMBH, suggesting that many astronomical bodies influence its path and that the description of the Sun's orbit is more complex.
  • A later reply provides context about the mass of the SMBH relative to the Milky Way, arguing that it is a small fraction of the total mass and thus has limited influence on the Sun's orbit.
  • Some participants mention the presence of dwarf galaxies, such as the Large and Small Magellanic Clouds, that orbit the Milky Way.
  • There is a discussion about the Milky Way's movement towards the Great Attractor, with some uncertainty about whether it will ever reach it due to the influence of the Hubble flow.
  • One participant notes that while Hubble's Law suggests galaxies are moving away from each other, the Milky Way is expected to collide with Andromeda in the future, indicating a more complex dynamic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the Sun's orbit and the Milky Way's relationship with other galaxies. There is no consensus on whether the Milky Way will reach the Great Attractor, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of Hubble's Law in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the gravitational influences on orbits, the complexity of galaxy interactions, and the implications of large-scale cosmic structures. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of orbits and the influence of mass distribution on these dynamics.

Stephanus
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Dear PF Forum,
Lunar Satelite orbits the moon,
The moon orbits the earth,
The Earth orbits the sun,
I know that some of you know about this picture
orbit.JPG

You might want to tell me. "No Steven, the Sun also orbits the earth"
But for all practical purpose, we'd say that the earth orbits the sun. So does the moon, the moon satelite, etc

Okay, so I'l continue.
The sun orbits the SMBH in the centre of our galaxy.
And in turn, what Milky Way orbits to?

Considering Hubble Law, that every galaxy is moving away each other.
Does Milky way somehow orbits a bigger galaxy,
And if it's true how many galaxies orbit that thing?
And what thing that that thing orbits?
And in that sense what is the last thing that doesn't orbit anything, if there is such last thing.Thank you very much
 
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Stephanus said:
The sun orbits the SMBH in the centre of our galaxy.
This is not very precise nor correct. The Sun is not on an orbit atound the central black hole. There are many more astronomical bodies which influence the solar orbit in the galaxy. More correct would be to say the sun has an orbit in the galaxy, which it is part of as well. It is not as simple to describe this as having the sun orbit what essentially is a point mass.

This becomes even worse on the galaxy cluster scale and as you increase the distances you are looking at the universe becomes essentially homogeneous.
 
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Orodruin said:
This is not very precise nor correct. The Sun is not on an orbit atound the central black hole.
To add a little bit of perspective, the black hole at the center of our galaxy (Sagittarius A*) is roughly 0.0006% of the total mass of the Milky Way galaxy, and much less than 1% of the mass that significantly influences the Sun's orbit (only the mass that is closer to the center of the Milky Way than the Sun has a big influence on the Sun's orbit).

There are some dwarf galaxies that are orbiting the Milky Way as well (the large and small Magellanic clouds are the largest of these). I'm not so sure that the Milky Way could really be described as orbiting anything else, however. It is currently falling towards the Great Attractor:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Attractor
 
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Chalnoth said:
...There are some dwarf galaxies ... (the large and small Magellanic clouds are the largest of these). ...It is currently falling towards the Great Attractor:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Attractor
... and Hubble said that every galaxy are moving away from us, aside from Andromeda :smile:
 
Stephanus said:
... and Hubble said that every galaxy are moving away from us, aside from Andromeda :smile:
Not every. That is the overall, average motion on large scales. In the next few billion years, for example, the Milky Way will collide with Andromeda.

I'm not sure that the Milky Way will ever reach the Great Attractor, though: we are moving towards the Great Attractor relative to the Hubble flow, but the Hubble flow is large enough that the Great Attractor is still getting further away at this time. So we're falling in that direction, but will probably never get there.
 
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Chalnoth said:
I'm not sure that the Milky Way will ever reach the Great Attractor, though: we are moving towards the Great Attractor relative to the Hubble flow, but the Hubble flow is large enough that the Great Attractor is still getting further away at this time. So we're falling in that direction, but will probably never get there.
Thanks for the enlightment
 

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