Ordered set ,filed, definition of =

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definitions and properties of ordered sets and fields, particularly focusing on the concept of equality and its axioms. Participants explore the implications of these definitions and seek clarification on certain aspects of mathematical reasoning related to equality.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines an ordered set and discusses the properties of order and equality, expressing confusion about the lack of certain axioms related to equality.
  • Another participant challenges the claim that there is no definition of equality that includes reflexivity, symmetry, and transitivity, asserting that these are fundamental properties of equality.
  • A later reply clarifies that the properties of equality are inherent to the definition of equality itself, which is considered primitive in the context of fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the existence and acknowledgment of axioms related to equality. There is no consensus on the interpretation of definitions from the referenced text.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in understanding the definitions and axioms as presented in the referenced book, with some participants noting the absence of explicit statements regarding the properties of equality.

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ordered set ,filed, definition of "="

Hi everyone,
an ordered set is a set S that for any x,y in S, there is a order definition "<" so that one and only one of the followings will be true:
x<y, y<x, x=y.
and also if x<y, y<z and x,y,z in S, then x<z.
but there is no such a definition that if x=y,y=z and x,y,z in S, then x=y=z and also a definition like x=x if x is in S.

An filed(F) should fullfill the axioms of addition,mulplification and distribution law.
from the addition axiom we can get the proposition that if x+y=x+z then y=z by following proof:
y=0+y=(-x+x)+y=-x+(x+y)
given above condition x+y=x+z then
y=-x+x+z=0+z=z.
but there is no such a definition or axioms that if x=y,a=b and x,y,z,b are in F, then x+a=y+b.
it really confuse me about "if x=y,y=z then x=z".
could you help me?
thanks.
 
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Where did you get the idea that "there is no such a definition that if x=y,y=z and x,y,z in S, then x=y=z and also a definition like x=x if x is in S"? Equality is reflexive, symmetric, and transitive.
 


D H said:
Where did you get the idea that "there is no such a definition that if x=y,y=z and x,y,z in S, then x=y=z and also a definition like x=x if x is in S"? Equality is reflexive, symmetric, and transitive.

Hi DH,
thank you for your reply.
I get the definition of order, ordered set, filed, from rudin's book principles of mathematical analysis. In this books there is no definition or axiom like if x=y,y=z. then x=z. I did not see any definition of equality with reflexive,symmetric and transitive.
 


You will not see it in a definition of field (not "filled" or "filed") because it is part of the definition of "=" itself which is primitive to field.
 

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