Partial derivatives after a transformation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of partial derivatives following a transformation of variables, specifically focusing on the relationships between transformed variables and their original counterparts. Participants explore both general and specific cases, including linear transformations and a particular example involving quadratic and linear relationships.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how to find the partial derivative \(\frac{\partial x'_1}{\partial x'_2}\) given a transformation defined by functions \(f\) and \(g\) of \(x_1\) and \(x_2\), suggesting that if a general expression is difficult, one might consider linear combinations of the variables.
  • Another participant reiterates the transformation rules and proposes that the independence of the marked and unmarked variables leads to a specific requirement involving partial derivatives, stating that \(\frac{\partial x_1'}{\partial x_2'} = 0\) under certain conditions.
  • A different participant presents a specific transformation \(x = u^2 - v^2\) and \(y = u + v\), asking how to derive \(u\) and \(v\) in terms of \(x\) and \(y\) using the previously mentioned requirements, while also noting an algebraic method for finding these relationships.
  • This participant provides a series of partial derivative identities derived from the transformation and suggests that these can be used to express \(u\) and \(v\) in terms of \(x\) and \(y\), indicating that further relationships can be established through manipulation of these identities.
  • Another participant expresses gratitude for the contributions made in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion includes multiple viewpoints on how to approach the problem of finding partial derivatives after a transformation. There is no consensus on a single method or solution, as participants explore different aspects and implications of the transformations.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on various assumptions regarding the independence of variables and the nature of the transformations, which may not be universally applicable. The discussion also highlights the complexity of deriving relationships between transformed and original variables, indicating that certain steps may remain unresolved.

MarkovMarakov
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Suppose I have a transformation

[tex](x'_1,x'_2)=(f(x_1,x_2), g(x_1,x_2))[/tex] and I wish to find [tex]\partial x'_1\over \partial x'_2[/tex] how do I do it?

If it is difficult to find a general expression for this, what if we suppose [itex]f,g[/itex] are simply linear combinations of [itex]x_1,x_2[/itex] so something like [itex]ax_1+bx_2[/itex] where [itex]a,b[/itex] are constants?
 
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MarkovMarakov said:
Suppose I have a transformation

[tex](x'_1,x'_2)=(f(x_1,x_2), g(x_1,x_2))[/tex] and I wish to find [tex]\partial x'_1\over \partial x'_2[/tex] how do I do it?

If it is difficult to find a general expression for this, what if we suppose [itex]f,g[/itex] are simply linear combinations of [itex]x_1,x_2[/itex] so something like [itex]ax_1+bx_2[/itex] where [itex]a,b[/itex] are constants?
Let the following transformation rules hold:
[tex]x'_1=f(x_1,x_2)[/tex]
[tex]x'_2=g(x_1,x_2)[/tex]
[tex]x_1=F(x'_1,x'_2)[/tex]
[tex]x_2=G(x'_1,x'_2)[/tex]

Then, we clearly have, for example the identity:
[tex]x'_1=f(F(x'_1,x'_2),G(x'_1,x'_2))[/tex]
Since the pair of marked variables (and the unmarked) are independent from each other, we have the requirement on the functional relationship:
[tex]\frac{\partial{x}_{1}^{'}}{\partial{x}_{2}^{'}}=0=\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x}_{1}}\frac{\partial{F}}{\partial{x}_{2}^{'}}+\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x}_{2}}\frac{\partial{G}}{\partial{x}_{2}^{'}}[/tex]
 
Last edited:
Suppose you have, say:
x=u^2-v^2
y=u+v
How can you utilize those implied requirements in the previous post to derive the the correct representations of u and v in terms of x and y?

Note that in this case, it is fairly trivial to find it by algrebrac means; dividing the first relationship by the second, we have x/y=u-v, and thus:
u=1/2(x/y+y), v=1/2(y-x/y)

However, using instead the four identities gained from the above requirements, we have
[tex]\frac{\partial{x}}{\partial{x}}=1=2u\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{x}}-2v\frac{\partial{v}}{\partial{x}}[/tex]
[tex]\frac{\partial{x}}{\partial{y}}=0=2u\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{y}}-2v\frac{\partial{v}}{\partial{y}}[/tex]
[tex]\frac{\partial{y}}{\partial{y}}=1=\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{y}}+\frac{\partial{v}}{\partial{y}}[/tex]
[tex]\frac{\partial{y}}{\partial{x}}=0=\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{x}}+\frac{\partial{v}}{\partial{x}}[/tex]

from these, you should be able to derive the above relations.

Note, for example, that by combining the first and fourth and the known relation y=u+v, you get:
[tex]\frac{\partial{u}}{\partial{x}}=\frac{1}{2y}[/tex]
meaning that we must have u(x,y)=x/2y+h(y), where h(y) is some function of y.
Applying the fourth, you get v(x,y)=b(y)-x/2y, for some b(y)

By using known and gained information, you will be able to determine h(y) and b(y) from the second and third relationships.
 
Last edited:
Thank you, arildno.
 

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