Particle beams: energy of released electrons

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the energy distribution of electrons released when a low-energy ion beam passes through a thin layer of material. Participants explore the theoretical underpinnings of this phenomenon, including potential models for the energy distribution of the emitted electrons, such as Maxwell-Boltzmann and Fermi distributions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the released electrons might follow a Maxwell distribution due to statistical mechanics, while others challenge this assumption, suggesting that ionization from charged beam particles is not a thermal process.
  • One participant mentions the Bethe-Bloch formula for calculating energy loss in thin layers but expresses uncertainty about how to derive the energy distribution of the released electrons from it.
  • Another participant suggests that the electrons might not be in thermal equilibrium and could follow a Fermi distribution instead, particularly in the context of metals.
  • Discussion includes the identification of Auger electrons as a possible source of the electron cloud, with references to empirical formulas for their energy distribution, though theoretical derivations remain elusive.
  • Participants express confusion regarding the nature of the electron cloud, debating whether it exists within the material or outside it, and the implications of this for understanding the energy distribution.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the energy distribution of the released electrons, with multiple competing views and models discussed throughout the thread. The nature of the electron cloud and the processes involved in its formation remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific assumptions regarding the processes involved in electron emission, the definitions of terms like "gas" in this context, and the unresolved mathematical steps in deriving the energy distribution from the Bethe-Bloch formula.

ORF
Messages
169
Reaction score
19
Hello

When a beam* pass through a thin layer of material (some microns), at the exit some electrons are released; so a electron cloud is formed around the exit point of the beam.

My question is: what is the energy distribution of these released electrons? (Maxwell, random,... )

I think they follow a Maxwell distribution (because of statistical mechanics), but I'm not sure.

Thank for your time :)

Greetings!
*of ions at low energy (eg, ISOLDE)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Have you tried searches on Google Scholar?
 
Hello

Yes, I tried searching in google, with some keywords as "beam" "particle" "layer" "electron" , but after two hours I got tired, and I decided to ask for.

I accept any suggestion (as some righter keywords for searching on my own).

Thank you for your time :)

Greetings!
 
A Maxwell-Boltzmann-distribution would surprise me. Ionization from charged beam particles is not a thermal process. You might get a good approximation if you take the energy loss of the ion in extremely thin layers (thin enough to neglect multiple scattering).
 
Hello

mfb said:
You might get a good approximation if you take the energy loss of the ion in extremely thin layers (thin enough to neglect multiple scattering).

I can understand that the energy loss, E, can be computed by the Bethe-Bloch formula.

But I don't know how compute the distribution of this energy E among the electrons (I tried a tracking of these electrons by GEANT4, but the step was too rought and I don't trust on the results).

I thought the cloud of electrons was an ideal gas in thermal equilibrium, and because of that, I thought they will follow a Maxwell distribution. This idea is (probably) wrong and because of that I asked.

Thanks for your time :)

Greetings!
 
ORF said:
I can understand that the energy loss, E, can be computed by the Bethe-Bloch formula.
That formula just gives you the average, not the distribution itself. It might be possible to use its derivation to make it differentially in the electron energy.
ORF said:
I thought the cloud of electrons was an ideal gas in thermal equilibrium, and because of that, I thought they will follow a Maxwell distribution.
You would need hot plasma to get that, otherwise you get Fermi distributions in metals and various valence shells in all materials. Anyway, this is the initial electron energy, the energy transfer is a different point. Many electrons get so much energy that their previous energy is not relevant.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: ORF
Hello

I made further searching, which took me to the Auger electrons (delta rays don't stay near the layer) as cause of the electron cloud.

I found a energy distribution for Auger electrons (an empirical formula), but I didn't find a theoretical derivation of the experimental spectrum (there are some models, but don't fit the experimental data very well).

Anyway, I don't need it (the theoretical derivation was just by curiosity).

On the other hand, I discovered that I had to activate the Auger process in GEANT4, it's disactivated by default; because of that, the electron's tracking show me 1 keV electrons (delta rays). For Auger electrons in GEANT4,
https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/Geant4/LoweAtomicDeexcitation

mfb said:
It might be possible to use its derivation to make it differentially in the electron
In the derivation, you suppose the ionization energy is 10Z eV (Bloch approx)... with this hypothesis, how can you differenciate in electron's energy?
By the way, here is the derivation of the Bethe-Bloch formula: http://lowette.web.cern.ch/lowette/UA6_particle.pdf

mfb said:
You would need hot plasma to get that, otherwise you get Fermi distributions in metals and various valence shells in all materials.
The gas of electrons is outside the material... why did you talk about valence shells? :)

Thanks for your time :D

Greetings!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ORF said:
The gas of electrons is outside the material... why did you talk about valence shells? :)
The gas of electrons is in the material your beam passes through. I would expect negligible interactions between those electrons and no time to thermalize.

ORF said:
In the derivation, you suppose the ionization energy is 10Z eV (Bloch approx)... with this hypothesis, how can you differenciate in electron's energy?
That's the lower energy cutoff, but there is also the energy an electron at a distance x gets if ionization energy is negligible.
 
Hello

mfb said:
The gas of electrons is in the material your beam passes through.
Experimentally I found a gas of electrons outside. If there is a gas of electrons inside, I don't mind (it's just a model of bound electrons in matter, isn't it?).

I found an article where it's explained: The Relationship Between Electron and Ion Induced Secondary Electron Imaging: A Review With New Experimental Observations. S. Y. Lai, D. Briggst, A. Brown and J. C. Vickerman. Surface and interface analysis, VOL. 8, 93-111 (1986).

Still I don't know how to differenciate Bethe-Bloch formula in order to get the energy spectrum. Delta rays are secondary radiation, whose energy spectrum might be obtained by this method, but the Auger electrons follow other process.

I still don't know clearly if the electrons are Auger or something else. I only know they have few eV and they are produced by ion bombardment (and the Auger electrons are the most probable option).

Thank for your time :)

Greetings!
 
  • #10
ORF said:
Experimentally I found a gas of electrons outside.
I would expect some individual electrons moving away from the impact point. I wouldn't call that a gas. And the electrons are not in thermal equilibrium.
ORF said:
but the Auger electrons follow other process.
Right, you wouldn't get those.
 
  • #11
Hello

mfb said:
Right, you wouldn't get those.

So... any ideas? :D

Greetings!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
13K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K