Particles from space seed cloud formation and greenhouse

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the hypothesis that particles from space, particularly cosmic rays, may influence cloud formation and contribute to greenhouse effects. Participants explore the relationship between solar activity, cosmic rays, and climate, as well as the role of terrestrial aerosols and dust particles in cloud condensation.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express skepticism about the idea that particles from space contribute to cloud formation, questioning the timing and lack of historical evidence.
  • One participant mentions that cloud formation requires condensation nuclei, which can be provided by dust particles or charged ions, and suggests that solar magnetic activity may influence the availability of these nuclei.
  • A participant references a paper indicating a correlation between climate and cosmic rays on a millennial scale, but questions the relative importance of cosmic rays compared to terrestrial dust particles.
  • Another participant argues that human activity contributes significantly to aerosol and dust particle production, potentially overshadowing cosmic rays in their effect on cloud formation.
  • There is a discussion about the complexity of cloud condensation nuclei (CCNs) and the assertion that having more nuclei does not necessarily lead to more cloud formation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express disagreement regarding the role of cosmic rays in cloud formation, with multiple competing views on the significance of cosmic rays versus terrestrial particles and the implications for climate change remaining unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the relationship between cloud formation and various types of condensation nuclei, as well as the potential influence of solar activity and human-induced aerosols. There are unresolved questions about the mechanisms involved and the relative contributions of different factors.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying climate science, atmospheric physics, or the impacts of human activity on environmental processes.

verdigris
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I don't believe the cloud formation by particles from space idea because why would they be doing this now (we'd have to be unlucky given geological timescales) and why isn't there evidence of this in the past.
 
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verdigris said:
I don't believe the cloud formation by particles from space idea because why would they be doing this now (we'd have to be unlucky given geological timescales) and why isn't there evidence of this in the past.
It would help if you posted a link to an article describing what you are talking about. I only vaguely remember reading something about this.
 
http://www.sciencebits.com/SkyResults.

The idea is that condensation of water vapor in the air requires some inducement to start. This can be a dust particle or something but a charged ion works very well too. It is argued that the induced solar magnetism varies with the flare / sunspot activity. This would cause the solar emitted charged particles which are heading for moderate latitudes on Earth to deviate to the poles, creating the auroras. With less condensation nuclei for the lower latitudes, cloud forming is inhibited, allowing for more sunlight to hit the Earth surface and consequently more global warming.

I don't believe the cloud formation by particles from space idea.

"Believe" is not a good practice for discovering how the Earth works. Consider it a set of N not linear equations with M variables and likely M>>N. Approaching that with the preconception that X <> A is unlikely to help solving it. Moreover there is evidence that climate and solar magnetic activity correlate.
 
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The paper says that the evidence is strongest for a correlation between climate and cosmic rays on a millenial scale.But how inportant are cosmic rays in seeding cloud formation compared to dust particles from earth,for example?
 
Man activity in producing aerosols and dust particles due to industrial activity would very well exceed CR. Its deposited right into troposphere.

Cloud condensation nucleii (CCNs) and the whole process does not even seem to be that easy. More nucleii does not mean more clouds!
 
"More nucleii does not mean more clouds!"

Yes.Otherwise the dirtiest industrial regions would always be the cloudiest.
 

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