- #1
emilmammadzada
- 133
- 19
- TL;DR
- particles,transport
Is it possible to transport only photon , electron and neutron in mcnp5?
Click For Summary
Discussion Overview
The discussion revolves around the capabilities of MCNP5 for simulating particle transport, specifically focusing on photons, electrons, and neutrons, as well as the potential for simulating protons. Participants explore the use of MCNP5 in comparison to other simulation tools like GEANT4 and Fluka, while also discussing stopping power calculations and input file examples for simulations.
Discussion Character
- Technical explanation
- Debate/contested
- Mathematical reasoning
- Experimental/applied
Main Points Raised
- Some participants confirm that MCNP5 can transport photons, electrons, and neutrons, while others mention that MCNPX and MCNP6 can handle a wider range of particles, including protons.
- A participant expresses a desire to simulate stopping power in MCNP5 and seeks an example input file for comparison with GEANT4 results.
- Questions are raised about the specific parameters for the simulation, such as particle type, energy, target thickness, and material composition.
- One participant notes that MCNP5 does not support protons unless a specific development version is available, and provides a sample input file for a proton source with a chromium shell.
- Another participant discusses the definition of stopping power and suggests that the results depend on whether the simulation can be run successfully, questioning the participant's familiarity with stopping distance calculations.
- Graphs of energy loss versus depth from a GEANT4 simulation are shared, showing various data points for energy loss at different depths.
- A participant mentions potential mistakes in their previous contributions and discusses an energy bin tally related to stopping power, expressing confusion over discrepancies in results compared to another participant's findings.
- One participant clarifies that their previous experiment was conducted with germanium, which may explain the differences in data compared to chromium.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants generally agree on the capabilities of MCNP5 for certain particles but disagree on the specifics of proton transport and stopping power calculations. Multiple competing views remain regarding the best approach for simulations and the interpretation of results.
Contextual Notes
There are limitations regarding the definitions of stopping power and the specific conditions under which the simulations are run. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions about the input parameters and materials used in the simulations.
- #2
Alex A
Gold Member
- 387
- 268
Yes.
MCNPX and MCNP6 (which is a merger of MCNPX and MCNP5) do a much wider range including exotic particles and the nucleus of a number of atoms, as will other programs, GEANT4 and Fluka for example. What is best to use depends on the situation, most people concentrating on low energy events, <20MeV for example probably wouldn't choose Fluka. If you were doing electron energy loss in thin films at a few KeV then the microelectronics module in GEANT4 might be the best at simulating.
MCNPX and MCNP6 (which is a merger of MCNPX and MCNP5) do a much wider range including exotic particles and the nucleus of a number of atoms, as will other programs, GEANT4 and Fluka for example. What is best to use depends on the situation, most people concentrating on low energy events, <20MeV for example probably wouldn't choose Fluka. If you were doing electron energy loss in thin films at a few KeV then the microelectronics module in GEANT4 might be the best at simulating.
- #3
emilmammadzada
- 133
- 19
I want to simulate stopping power in mcnp5 and I want to find an example input file.I want to compare the results with geant4. I am using geant4Alex A said:
- #4
Alex A
Gold Member
- 387
- 268
What particle, what energy, how thick is the target, what is it made of?
- #5
emilmammadzada
- 133
- 19
I want to send 5 MeV protons to my YZ=1mm and 10 um thickness chromium. How can I do this in mcnp5?
- #6
Alex A
Gold Member
- 387
- 268
There was a development version that did protons, but it was given up on. Unless you know you have it, MCNP5 does not do protons.
This is not quite what you asked for, it's a proton source with a 10um shell of chromium round it. Around that is a test cell I've given roughly unit volume. The result is not that meaningful, the f4 just confirms that less than 100 of the million fail to make it through. If you want to know energy loss information you'll need to modify it and/or tell us what your GEANT4 results are.
This is not quite what you asked for, it's a proton source with a 10um shell of chromium round it. Around that is a test cell I've given roughly unit volume. The result is not that meaningful, the f4 just confirms that less than 100 of the million fail to make it through. If you want to know energy loss information you'll need to modify it and/or tell us what your GEANT4 results are.
Code:
c Chromium 10um proton test.
1 0 -11
2 1 -7.19 11 -12
3 0 12 -13
4 0 13
c surfaces
11 so 1
12 so 1.001
13 so 1.07497
mode h
NPS 1000000
IMP:H 1 1 1 0
SDEF pos=0 0 0 erg=5.0 par=h
f4:h 3
M1 24050 0.04345
24052 0.83789
24053 0.09501
24054 0.02365- #7
emilmammadzada
- 133
- 19
Thanks you very much .How can I see the stopping power in this code output?Alex A said:Proton yapan bir geliştirme versiyonu vardı ama ondan vazgeçildi. Sahip olduğunuzu bilmediğiniz sürece, MCNP5 proton yapmaz.
Bu tam olarak istediğin şey değil, etrafında 10um'luk bir krom kabuğu olan bir proton kaynağı. Bunun çevresinde kabaca birim hacim verdiğim bir test hücresi var. Sonuç o kadar da anlamlı değil, f4 sadece bir milyonun 100'ünden daha azının bir çekirdekten sektiğini doğruluyor. Enerji kaybı bilgisini öğrenmek istiyorsanız, onu değiştirmeniz ve/veya GEANT4 sonuçlarınızın ne olduğunu bize bildirmeniz gerekir.
[kod]
c Krom 10um proton testi.
1 0 -11
2 1 -7.19 11 -12
3 0 12 -13
4 0 13
c yüzeyler
11 yani 1
12 yani 1.001
13 yani 1,07497
mod h
NPS 1000000
IMP1 1 1 0
SDEF poz=0 0 0 erg=5,0 par=h
f4:h 3
M1 24050 0,04345
24052 0,83789
24053 0,09501
24054 0,02365
[/kod]
- #8
Alex A
Gold Member
- 387
- 268
It depends on how you define stopping power. In terms of raw protons almost all of them make it through, presumably at reduced energy. What you can do with the code depends on if you can run it. Have you done stopping distance calculations so you have an idea what the results are supposed to look like? How far are you with the GEANT4 simulation?
- #9
emilmammadzada
- 133
- 19
Depth(um) | Energy loss | Depth(um)1 | (atoms/cm^3)/(atoms/cm^2) |
5.00E-02 | 2.20E+01 | 0.05 | 0.00 |
1.50E-01 | 2.20E+01 | 0.15 | 0.00 |
2.50E-01 | 2.21E+01 | 0.25 | 0.00 |
3.50E-01 | 2.20E+01 | 0.35 | 0.00 |
4.50E-01 | 2.20E+01 | 0.45 | 0.00 |
5.50E-01 | 2.19E+01 | 0.55 | 0.00 |
6.50E-01 | 2.19E+01 | 0.65 | 0.00 |
7.50E-01 | 2.20E+01 | 0.75 | 0.00 |
8.50E-01 | 2.20E+01 | 0.85 | 0.00 |
9.50E-01 | 2.20E+01 | 0.95 | 0.00 |
1.05E+00 | 2.20E+01 | 1.05 | 0.00 |
1.15E+00 | 2.20E+01 | 1.15 | 0.00 |
1.25E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 1.25 | 0.00 |
1.35E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 1.35 | 0.00 |
1.45E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 1.45 | 0.00 |
1.55E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 1.55 | 0.00 |
1.65E+00 | 2.20E+01 | 1.65 | 0.00 |
1.75E+00 | 2.20E+01 | 1.75 | 0.00 |
1.85E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 1.85 | 0.00 |
1.95E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 1.95 | 0.00 |
2.05E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 2.05 | 0.00 |
2.15E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 2.15 | 0.00 |
2.25E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 2.25 | 0.00 |
2.35E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 2.35 | 0.00 |
2.45E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 2.45 | 0.00 |
2.55E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 2.55 | 0.00 |
2.65E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 2.65 | 0.00 |
2.75E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 2.75 | 0.00 |
2.85E+00 | 2.22E+01 | 2.85 | 0.00 |
2.95E+00 | 2.22E+01 | 2.95 | 0.00 |
3.05E+00 | 2.21E+01 | 3.05 | 0.00 |
3.15E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 3.15 | 0.00 |
3.25E+00 | 2.22E+01 | 3.25 | 0.00 |
3.35E+00 | 2.22E+01 | 3.35 | 0.00 |
3.45E+00 | 2.22E+01 | 3.45 | 0.00 |
3.55E+00 | 2.22E+01 | 3.55 | 0.00 |
3.65E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 3.65 | 0.00 |
3.75E+00 | 2.22E+01 | 3.75 | 0.00 |
3.85E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 3.85 | 0.00 |
3.95E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 3.95 | 0.00 |
4.05E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 4.05 | 0.00 |
4.15E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 4.15 | 0.00 |
4.25E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 4.25 | 0.00 |
4.35E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 4.35 | 0.00 |
4.45E+00 | 2.22E+01 | 4.45 | 0.00 |
4.55E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 4.55 | 0.00 |
4.65E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 4.65 | 0.00 |
4.75E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 4.75 | 0.00 |
4.85E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 4.85 | 2.00 |
4.95E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 4.95 | 0.00 |
5.05E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 5.05 | 0.00 |
5.15E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 5.15 | 0.00 |
5.25E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 5.25 | 0.00 |
5.35E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 5.35 | 0.00 |
5.45E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 5.45 | 0.00 |
5.55E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 5.55 | 0.00 |
5.65E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 5.65 | 0.00 |
5.75E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 5.75 | 0.00 |
5.85E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 5.85 | 0.00 |
5.95E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 5.95 | 0.00 |
6.05E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 6.05 | 0.00 |
6.15E+00 | 2.23E+01 | 6.15 | 0.00 |
6.25E+00 | 2.25E+01 | 6.25 | 0.00 |
6.35E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 6.35 | 0.00 |
6.45E+00 | 2.25E+01 | 6.45 | 0.00 |
6.55E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 6.55 | 0.00 |
6.65E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 6.65 | 0.00 |
6.75E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 6.75 | 0.00 |
6.85E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 6.85 | 0.00 |
6.95E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 6.95 | 0.00 |
7.05E+00 | 2.26E+01 | 7.05 | 0.00 |
7.15E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 7.15 | 0.00 |
7.25E+00 | 2.25E+01 | 7.25 | 0.00 |
7.35E+00 | 2.25E+01 | 7.35 | 0.00 |
7.45E+00 | 2.26E+01 | 7.45 | 0.00 |
7.55E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 7.55 | 0.00 |
7.65E+00 | 2.25E+01 | 7.65 | 0.00 |
7.75E+00 | 2.24E+01 | 7.75 | 0.00 |
7.85E+00 | 2.25E+01 | 7.85 | 0.00 |
7.95E+00 | 2.25E+01 | 7.95 | 0.00 |
8.05E+00 | 2.26E+01 | 8.05 | 0.00 |
8.15E+00 | 2.26E+01 | 8.15 | 0.00 |
8.25E+00 | 2.26E+01 | 8.25 | 0.00 |
8.35E+00 | 2.25E+01 | 8.35 | 0.00 |
8.45E+00 | 2.25E+01 | 8.45 | 0.00 |
8.55E+00 | 2.27E+01 | 8.55 | 0.00 |
8.65E+00 | 2.26E+01 | 8.65 | 0.00 |
8.75E+00 | 2.25E+01 | 8.75 | 0.00 |
8.85E+00 | 2.26E+01 | 8.85 | 0.00 |
8.95E+00 | 2.27E+01 | 8.95 | 0.00 |
9.05E+00 | 2.26E+01 | 9.05 | 0.00 |
9.15E+00 | 2.27E+01 | 9.15 | 0.00 |
9.25E+00 | 2.27E+01 | 9.25 | 0.00 |
9.35E+00 | 2.27E+01 | 9.35 | 0.00 |
9.45E+00 | 2.26E+01 | 9.45 | 0.00 |
9.55E+00 | 2.26E+01 | 9.55 | 0.00 |
9.65E+00 | 2.27E+01 | 9.65 | 0.00 |
9.75E+00 | 2.27E+01 | 9.75 | 0.00 |
9.85E+00 | 2.27E+01 | 9.85 | 0.00 |
9.95E+00 | 2.27E+01 | 9.95 | 0.00 |
- #10
Alex A
Gold Member
- 387
- 268
So, what I've written might contain mistakes, and it's simplified and not exactly what you asked for. I've added an energy bin tally between 4.4 and 4.8 MeV. The peak corresponds to a stopping power of around 34 MeV/mm. I don't think X has the capability to plot energy loss versus true distance.
I found some fairly old tables here and Chromium is missing, so I tried the numbers for Vanadium and got a result of 33.7 MeV/mm. I'm pleased, if slightly weirded out by the match. It seems a bit too good to be true. I don't know why your numbers are 2/3rds of this. I hope the attached output is of some help.
I found some fairly old tables here and Chromium is missing, so I tried the numbers for Vanadium and got a result of 33.7 MeV/mm. I'm pleased, if slightly weirded out by the match. It seems a bit too good to be true. I don't know why your numbers are 2/3rds of this. I hope the attached output is of some help.
- #11
emilmammadzada
- 133
- 19
Sorry, I did the experiment for germanium in geant4. That's why our data do not match.
- #12
emilmammadzada
- 133
- 19
emilmammadzada said:
Alex A said:
Depth(um) | Energy loss | Depth(um) | (Atoms/cm^3)/(Atoms/cm^2) |
0.05 | 34.50 | 0.05 | 0.00 |
0.15 | 34.50 | 0.15 | 0.00 |
0.25 | 34.56 | 0.25 | 0.00 |
0.35 | 34.60 | 0.35 | 0.00 |
0.45 | 34.52 | 0.45 | 0.00 |
0.55 | 34.63 | 0.55 | 0.00 |
0.65 | 34.52 | 0.65 | 0.00 |
0.75 | 34.65 | 0.75 | 0.00 |
0.85 | 34.67 | 0.85 | 0.00 |
0.95 | 34.58 | 0.95 | 0.00 |
1.05 | 34.70 | 1.05 | 0.00 |
1.15 | 34.64 | 1.15 | 0.00 |
1.25 | 34.66 | 1.25 | 0.00 |
1.35 | 34.85 | 1.35 | 0.00 |
1.45 | 34.68 | 1.45 | 0.00 |
1.55 | 34.80 | 1.55 | 0.00 |
1.65 | 34.83 | 1.65 | 0.00 |
1.75 | 34.82 | 1.75 | 0.00 |
1.85 | 34.83 | 1.85 | 0.00 |
1.95 | 34.98 | 1.95 | 0.00 |
2.05 | 34.82 | 2.05 | 0.00 |
2.15 | 34.94 | 2.15 | 0.00 |
2.25 | 34.88 | 2.25 | 0.00 |
2.35 | 34.83 | 2.35 | 0.00 |
2.45 | 34.83 | 2.45 | 0.00 |
2.55 | 34.89 | 2.55 | 0.00 |
2.65 | 35.10 | 2.65 | 0.00 |
2.75 | 35.01 | 2.75 | 0.00 |
2.85 | 35.05 | 2.85 | 0.00 |
2.95 | 35.09 | 2.95 | 0.00 |
3.05 | 35.01 | 3.05 | 0.00 |
3.15 | 35.04 | 3.15 | 0.00 |
3.25 | 35.02 | 3.25 | 0.00 |
3.35 | 35.13 | 3.35 | 0.00 |
3.45 | 35.09 | 3.45 | 0.00 |
3.55 | 35.10 | 3.55 | 0.00 |
3.65 | 35.20 | 3.65 | 0.00 |
3.75 | 35.25 | 3.75 | 0.00 |
3.85 | 35.29 | 3.85 | 0.00 |
3.95 | 35.16 | 3.95 | 0.00 |
4.05 | 35.16 | 4.05 | 0.00 |
4.15 | 35.19 | 4.15 | 0.00 |
4.25 | 35.23 | 4.25 | 0.00 |
4.35 | 35.29 | 4.35 | 0.00 |
4.45 | 35.26 | 4.45 | 0.00 |
4.55 | 35.34 | 4.55 | 0.00 |
4.65 | 35.37 | 4.65 | 0.00 |
4.75 | 35.38 | 4.75 | 0.00 |
4.85 | 35.47 | 4.85 | 0.00 |
4.95 | 35.38 | 4.95 | 0.00 |
5.05 | 35.43 | 5.05 | 0.00 |
5.15 | 35.46 | 5.15 | 0.00 |
5.25 | 35.49 | 5.25 | 0.00 |
5.35 | 35.41 | 5.35 | 0.00 |
5.45 | 35.57 | 5.45 | 0.00 |
5.55 | 35.39 | 5.55 | 0.00 |
5.65 | 35.64 | 5.65 | 0.00 |
5.75 | 35.59 | 5.75 | 0.00 |
5.85 | 35.59 | 5.85 | 0.00 |
5.95 | 35.57 | 5.95 | 0.00 |
6.05 | 35.58 | 6.05 | 0.00 |
6.15 | 35.60 | 6.15 | 0.00 |
6.25 | 35.58 | 6.25 | 0.00 |
6.35 | 35.69 | 6.35 | 0.00 |
6.45 | 35.63 | 6.45 | 0.00 |
6.55 | 35.68 | 6.55 | 0.00 |
6.65 | 35.70 | 6.65 | 0.00 |
6.75 | 35.85 | 6.75 | 0.00 |
6.85 | 35.83 | 6.85 | 0.00 |
6.95 | 35.67 | 6.95 | 0.00 |
7.05 | 35.84 | 7.05 | 0.00 |
7.15 | 35.83 | 7.15 | 0.00 |
7.25 | 35.91 | 7.25 | 0.00 |
7.35 | 35.70 | 7.35 | 0.00 |
7.45 | 35.92 | 7.45 | 0.00 |
7.55 | 35.94 | 7.55 | 0.00 |
7.65 | 36.01 | 7.65 | 0.00 |
7.75 | 36.07 | 7.75 | 0.00 |
7.85 | 35.90 | 7.85 | 0.00 |
7.95 | 35.96 | 7.95 | 0.00 |
8.05 | 35.89 | 8.05 | 0.00 |
8.15 | 35.99 | 8.15 | 0.00 |
8.25 | 36.05 | 8.25 | 0.00 |
8.35 | 36.05 | 8.35 | 0.00 |
8.45 | 36.04 | 8.45 | 0.00 |
8.55 | 36.15 | 8.55 | 0.00 |
8.65 | 36.17 | 8.65 | 0.00 |
8.75 | 36.11 | 8.75 | 0.00 |
8.85 | 36.18 | 8.85 | 0.00 |
8.95 | 36.10 | 8.95 | 0.00 |
9.05 | 36.25 | 9.05 | 0.00 |
9.15 | 36.25 | 9.15 | 0.00 |
9.25 | 36.28 | 9.25 | 0.00 |
9.35 | 36.28 | 9.35 | 0.00 |
9.45 | 36.28 | 9.45 | 0.00 |
9.55 | 36.32 | 9.55 | 0.00 |
9.65 | 36.40 | 9.65 | 0.00 |
9.75 | 36.27 | 9.75 | 0.00 |
9.85 | 36.41 | 9.85 | 0.00 |
9.95 | 36.43 | 9.95 | 0.00 |
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